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| Author |
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| 25 new of 256 responses total. |
sidhe
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response 104 of 256:
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Jan 15 08:38 UTC 1995 |
Grex News Network? GNN? I think it sounds delightful!
And now for something completely different.
Valerie, I beseech thee to create a cf that I would call Sympathy.
In it, people would be encouraged to enter items to air problems that they
may be having difficulty dealing with. Then, these items would be
responded to, with advice and emotional support from other grexxers.
I've recieved a very warm response to the concept from people
already, and it doesn't even exist yet! With all the turmoil that gets
stirred up here, occasionally, I see a great neeed for a forum dedicated
to healing hurts and helping people who may otherwise be feeling lost, or
confused.
The only thing I ask is A) Let me FW it, and B) Please allow a
deviation from the typical grex attitude of "no item killing", as I'm sure
eventually I'll get someone who would come through and post something
hurtful. This would only be used on request of Sympathy's participants,
but I feel that it shouldn't be seen as an attempt to "lord over" the cf,
but merely a measure to try and help those participants who would be hurt
by such a hypothetical posting. If you would like to pair me with someone
else to FW it, that would be fine.
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mju
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response 105 of 256:
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Jan 15 16:25 UTC 1995 |
(Too bad O'Reilly & Associates already has the trademark on GNN,
for their Global Network Navigator.)
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rcurl
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response 106 of 256:
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Jan 15 21:41 UTC 1995 |
I wouldn't worry. Acronyms are only defensible as trademarks if
a) the company has a well etablished market under that mark, and b)
the usurper is in the same market. However in this case, even though
it is catchy, I'm not sure Grex News would be exactly a "network".
GN seems sufficient. So, who wants to be the FW? So far, everyone
likes the idea, so pretty soon popcorn will do her thing, if a FW
comes forward, and we keep making noises about having a Grex News cf.
Noise, noise, noise.....
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andyv
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response 107 of 256:
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Jan 15 23:45 UTC 1995 |
I'll be fw of GNN :) A place I would like to read often anyway.
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davel
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response 108 of 256:
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Jan 16 01:55 UTC 1995 |
sidhe, what do you plan to do about hurtful *responses* as opposed to items?
Last I heard, FWs can't kill responses. Does this make your task
impossible, as you see it?
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rcurl
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response 109 of 256:
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Jan 16 07:13 UTC 1995 |
People that enter hurtful responses need sympathy. You could start
new Items to discuss their problems. Might be touch cases, but it
could also be worthwhile.
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sidhe
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response 110 of 256:
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Jan 16 15:50 UTC 1995 |
Exactly. Hurtful responses are typically cries of pain, so those would
be invited to start their own item. If, indeed, the person is truly only
intending on being obnoxious, then I would have to bring it to staff's
attention. I am unclear on one thing.. can't a FW expurge and scribble a
response?
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rcurl
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response 111 of 256:
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Jan 16 16:40 UTC 1995 |
The FW command summary (Item 26 in info) says that those are turned off
for fws. I'd still be inclined to deal with obnoxious - there should
be enough participants to dump on obnoxious, and at least show that
obnoxious isn't welcome.
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popcorn
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response 112 of 256:
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Jan 18 15:04 UTC 1995 |
Sidhe - do you still want the sympathy conference created, even though
fair witnesses can't censor individual responses on Grex?
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sidhe
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response 113 of 256:
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Jan 18 15:44 UTC 1995 |
Well, I think that the benefits that this cf will give to the Grex
community practically demand its' creation. I'm *uncomfortable* with the
idea that responses are un-editable, and I simply request that, if such a
problem arrises, that I can come to staff, to see if the problem response
can be expurged. In this sense, there is more assurance that both
A) troublemakers will not be tolerated, and,
B) I shall not be using this power to tyrade over anyone.
I understand that to turn on this capacity for my cf will entice
other FW's to ask for it, so I have no problem leaving it off, and only
coming to staff, should a real problem arise.
My question then is, is this acceptable to *you*, Valerie?
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gerund
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response 114 of 256:
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Jan 18 16:56 UTC 1995 |
Sidhe- I don't think it's going to be a big problem.
The Grex philosophy has always sorta been 'there ARE no troublemakers
if you ignore them'. I don't really agree, but I also don't
think people are going to deliberately come trashing this
proposed conference. And where do you draw a line?
If I come in and tell you to stop moping and get off your
butt and get back into life in response to an item in this
conference are you going to want to call me a troublemaker?
Sometimes open communication isn't open unless the things we
don't want to hear are still allowed to be voiced. I guess I'm
asking... are you looking for a candy coated conference where
noone says anything abrasive? Because if you are I don't think
it will happen.
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rcurl
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response 115 of 256:
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Jan 18 18:51 UTC 1995 |
Fans of Grex News, unite. We are being ignored. Our esteemed FW^2 is
not giving equal attention to News as to Sympathy. The squeeky wheel
gets the oil, they say, so lets hear Grex News Squeeks!
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mdw
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response 116 of 256:
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Jan 18 23:24 UTC 1995 |
Sidhe, there are some very good reasons why PicoSpan does not allow the
fair-witness to censor. Basically, people are not little tiny wind-up
robots to control. You can't make people be nice to each other.
Censoring a response is the conferencing equivalent to grabbing your
electronic stun gun, zapping the person, and ramming a muzzle onto their
face. Even in a face to face meeting, this kind of behavior from those
in charge is rarely tolerated. In an electronic village like grex where
people have grown used to freedom, you *will* be hung in effigy, and you
may never live it down.
Being a fair-witness is not hard. But it's not like being a draftsman
where you can just erase the errant line. It's much more like being an
artist in that you really don't know what you're going to have until
you're finished, and you have to be prepared to go along with the flow.
The best you can hope to do is to guide the flow by encouraging and
working to make good stuff happen. This comes naturally to many people
- but if you are used to a centralized top down decision making
structure, this is going to seem very alien and unstructured.
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chelsea
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response 117 of 256:
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Jan 18 23:33 UTC 1995 |
Hey, I think he should try it out, warning users up-front of
his intentions to moderate discussion to fit his concept of
appropriate. I'd be interested in how it would go and his
opinion of the conference in six months. Could PicoSpan
allow expanded FW control for just this conference?
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mwarner
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response 118 of 256:
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Jan 19 00:09 UTC 1995 |
Early on, the comment was made that conference participants could be
"forewarned" and therefore could choose to go elsewhere, or could "choose"
to agree to censorship rules. However, if the topics are not available
elsewhere, then there is no choice.
You can't have different tools for fw's in different conferences. If I
choose to link an item from "your" conference to one in "my" conference, I
don't want to accept "your" special privilege to censor.
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gerund
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response 119 of 256:
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Jan 19 02:10 UTC 1995 |
My biggest concern is where the line would be drawn.
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mdw
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response 120 of 256:
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Jan 19 04:54 UTC 1995 |
I've entered item 84 to better answer Mary's question. I'd like to
return this item to discussing the news & um, what was it? conference -
or future conference proposals, rather than PicoSpan design issues.
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lilmo
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response 121 of 256:
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Jan 19 05:14 UTC 1995 |
Now why on earth would you want to go and do that for ?? *grin*
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remmers
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response 122 of 256:
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Jan 19 11:28 UTC 1995 |
Re #113 and related discussion: I see no reason why every conference
has to play by the same rules, so if Christopher wants to try something
different, fine -- I'm glad he's being up-front about it in advance.
*However* -- like Valerie, I'm also a cfadm person, and I'm not
comfortable with the concept of staff as an "enforcer" of somebody
else's rules. So in answer to Christopher's question as to whether
he can "come to staff" to have something expurgated that he himself
can't, my personal answer is no, not if that staff person is me.
I would only expurgate something if it's a violation of grex policies,
e.g. illegal material -- that is, only if it's something that should
be expurgated no matter what conference it's posted in.
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popcorn
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response 123 of 256:
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Jan 19 14:17 UTC 1995 |
Re 115: The news conference is on my list of conferences to create. I was
hoping for a definite decision about the sympathy conference really soon
now, so I could efficiently create both at the same time.
Re 122: I agree with John that I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of
staff in the role of enforcer. I would much prefer a different solution.
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sidhe
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response 124 of 256:
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Jan 19 17:02 UTC 1995 |
Well, to be honest, i only came up with that idea, to see what you
thought about it. I see this would make staff uncomfortable, and thus I
withdraw the idea of coming to staff with the problem.
Chelsea- I appreciate the support of what I had originally wanted,
in the first place. Again, though, I'm seeing resistance to the idea. To
be dead honest to all of you, the only reason I'm proposing this as a cf,
as opposed to calling for a separate "feature" called sympathy, wherein
the concept wouldn't even be linkable to the other cf's, is that the
institution of said "new feature" would probably take halfways to forever,
and I truly believe that Grex could've used this service a LONG time ago.
It really is, in my mind, it's own entity.. I'd be somewhat
uncomfortable with the idea of it's items being linked to anywhere else.
Gerund- no, what you gave as an example is certainly NOT what *I*
would call a flame. It's a bit tough, but it certainly does possess the
quality of trying to help, without vulgarity. What I want to be able to
strike down are the out-and-out attacks that i have seen occasionally crop
up in the other cf's, as I would say that these would be very damaging to
the person who the attack is aimed at, as sympathy would be a place one
comes to solve problems, and heal wounds. Given this, any attack made in
sympathy would be MUCH more damagig than elsewhere, because sympathy is
supposed to be a place you can feel safe in.
Now- If the idea of having a cf have these features bothers you,
then I urge you to make it something separate from picospan. One way or
the other, Grex could really use this, and I'd hate to see it shot down
out of hand.
Simply my thoughts..
sidhe
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cicero
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response 125 of 256:
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Jan 20 09:22 UTC 1995 |
sidhe, I think all this sounds good on the surface, but really wether it is
part of picospan or some "separate feature" the problem still remains that
we would have to rely on a subjective interpretation of what is offensive.
I know of people who would find offensive any sentence (even a positive one)
which contains the words "Jesus Christ" used as an epithet. Just how do you
propose to determine whether an item is offensive or not?
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popcorn
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response 126 of 256:
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Jan 21 02:45 UTC 1995 |
(Sidhe - I don't think anybody is arguing against creating the conference,
just figuring out details of how it will be implemented).
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cicero
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response 127 of 256:
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Jan 21 06:48 UTC 1995 |
re #126:
Quite right! I think everyone agrees that this would be a useful conference!
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carson
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response 128 of 256:
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Jan 21 10:10 UTC 1995 |
well...
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