|
|
| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 155 responses total. |
vidar
|
|
response 101 of 155:
| 
Dec 8 02:24 UTC 2001 |
I think someone's been reading a little too much into what I posted.
There are some people who are fickle enough that they won't be your
friends if you unsucessfully ask them out.
|
cyklone
|
|
response 102 of 155:
|
Dec 8 04:41 UTC 2001 |
Then do you really want them as your "friend"?
|
lelande
|
|
response 103 of 155:
|
Dec 10 02:21 UTC 2001 |
depends on whether or not you want to try "saving" them.
|
kewy
|
|
response 104 of 155:
|
Dec 11 04:37 UTC 2001 |
I like getting to know people before actually "dating" them and/or going out
on dates. Things like coffee let you get to know people without having too
much invested in it. When I go for coffee with someone, I'd rather not label
it as a date. I'd also rather not have someone ask me straight out for a
date, maybe under certain circumstances, and with the right person it'd be
alright, but I'm not sure what those would be.
And then sticking to the question, first of all, if someone is my friend, we
already go out for coffee and the like. I pretty much draw the friend and
aquaintance line at "do we hang out?", so if a friend of mine asked me out
for coffee I wouldn't think anything of it. I do think it might be abrupt
if they asked for a date out of the blue. In my experience, things with
friends just sort of... happen. You hang out a lot, and either have a talk
or something else just happens. That's fine with me. I'd rather it happen
that way.
|
lelande
|
|
response 105 of 155:
|
Dec 11 06:10 UTC 2001 |
it's a strategy. that much can be said. after about the 4th month of nothing
"just happening", most folks i know start to shop for new strategies.
|
vidar
|
|
response 106 of 155:
|
Dec 13 02:19 UTC 2001 |
Even if I am successful, one of my habits could pose a problem.
|
jaklumen
|
|
response 107 of 155:
|
Dec 13 03:07 UTC 2001 |
Lot to digest here.
I'm curious why no one has used the word "courting." "Dating" is
commonplace, but the former term seems to be almost archaic in most
contexts.
I've thought a lot about this, and I think I agree with sentiments that
a lasting relationship takes time, practice, and a lot of planning.
Managing one needs a lot of work and constant maintainance, which
unfortunately, I suppose many have forgotten about or don't quite
understand.
I hope you'll forgive me when I relate my own experiences, especially
those in church settings, but I think it's appropriate. I agree with
what's been said about friendship; so much pressure is put upon
striving to impress and satisfying the immediate desires of sex.
For those who would ballyhoo the church context I'm about to explain,
let me say that I found the intents and ideals I was presented with to
be very, very helpful. First of all, I had a lot of time in church
youth groups to get to know others in an unthreatening context. There
were a lot of group activities that were structured in such a way that
expectations were fairly low and we had a chance to get to know each
other. More importantly, we were encouraged to think about what
qualities we would seek for in a mate, and what goals we wanted to
accomplish with such a person. We were encouraged to think if a temple
marriage was something we wanted (and yes, it has to be an individual
decision.)
There's some important points there. We were given opportunities to
mix without all the pressure, while we had time to think about what we
really wanted. It was gradually explained and emphasized more and more
as we got older. I can't think of many places where we were otherwise
encouraged to start thinking about such things at such a young age-- it
began, more or less, when we were about 12.
The LDS Church discourages dating before the age of 16, and when I
finally did reach that age, I began to see some of the reasons why.
Although sex wasn't a big factor in the first few years, a lot of my
experiences were distastrous. I dated so many girls that had unreal
expectations sometimes, hoping I would be more.. impressive, I guess.
I had a lot of problems growing and it was an awkward time for me.
I realized I had a much easier time when I dated friends, and when I
went on group dates where friendship was a stronger factor than the
expectation of making some sort of love connection. It was easier for
me to relax and be myself, which I think most here would agree is
important: to be yourself and not try to be someone you are not. In
fact, it was the foundation that Julie and I built on.
I met her at a church function. Again, I know people tend to discount
religion, but it is an area where you know you are meeting people that
share your moral and ethical principles-- your way of life. (Granted,
you do more checking when you meet and start talking.)
Julie is a touchy-feely sort of person, and so I misread her nonverbal
language at first, but I felt free when I made it clear that I wanted
to keep the terms on friendship at that time. Then I realized that I
liked the way the relationship was growing. It was friendly at first,
and warmed into affection that built its way into intimacy. We also
decided upon marriage-- and a covenanted one at that in one of our
church temples, before our intimacy was fully consummated.
It is my firm belief that sexual contact does form a bond of some sort--
I don't think many would disagree with me there, and that is why I
have held to the principle (as best as I have been able) of keeping it
within my marriage. There are so many elements to a relationship, and
not all of them are sexual, but I do think it is easier to have the
former in place before the latter are added, as I think sex is a good
mortar to the bricks of a relationship.
I suppose there may be some that question some choices I have made in
the past, and may think me a hypocrite. Some, I know, have questioned
my integrity in such matters. That topic will remain for another item.
To summarize-- go meet a mate where you share common interests,
especially if those interests are fundamental and agreeable to your
character. You can meet them anywhere, but I do believe organizations
(and not all may be religious) that espouse your particular creed,
philosophy, or way of living tend to be the best places to go.
Clubs, bars, and the Internet, as said, are fine, but sex usually is
more the emphasis.
|
i
|
|
response 108 of 155:
|
Dec 14 03:44 UTC 2001 |
In my mind, "courting" is socially archaic in modern America. It's more
like quite prim & proper flirting in a world of chaperones, arranged
marriages, fairly strong sex segregation, etc.
|
flem
|
|
response 109 of 155:
|
Dec 14 21:05 UTC 2001 |
Heh. I once got great results from that word. :)
|
jaklumen
|
|
response 110 of 155:
|
Dec 20 10:07 UTC 2001 |
resp:108 Yes, that could be one definition.
|
vidar
|
|
response 111 of 155:
|
Jan 6 00:24 UTC 2002 |
My main reason for not simply using "Do you want to go on a date?" is
because if they agree, the next question will be "what do you want to
do?"
By specifying an activity, you share one of your interests with the
other person.
|
michaela
|
|
response 112 of 155:
|
Jan 7 16:05 UTC 2002 |
Exactly, and it shows you are capable of decisions and planning.
|
kewy
|
|
response 113 of 155:
|
Jan 7 23:36 UTC 2002 |
re 111
So you are saying that you don't want to share any of your interests with
someone that you may potentially date?
|
vidar
|
|
response 114 of 155:
|
Jan 8 22:20 UTC 2002 |
Read it again kewy.
|
kewy
|
|
response 115 of 155:
|
Jan 9 15:39 UTC 2002 |
I read it again, and again, and again.
|
jazz
|
|
response 116 of 155:
|
Jan 9 19:42 UTC 2002 |
Ignore what people say about dating, and watch what they actually do.
Most people don't seem to be conscious of what they're doing, if they're doing
anything at all, and if you ask them they'll give you a confusing piece of
what they're willing to admit of what they're conscious of, which often
completely contradicts the way that they're behaving.
If you watch what they're actually doing, then it suddenly becomes very
consistent, and very easy to understand, as long as you're willing to throw
out a lot of pre-concieved notions about how people date.
Going to a dance club is fine, if you're looking for the kind of person
who goes to dance clubs to look for partners. Odds are they're more sexually
active, so sex is likely to come earlier rather than later and not necessarily
be an indication they want a relationship. Drug use is likely to be higher
too. And there's always that "relationships that start in bars, end in bars"
saw. But a good number of people in such places really are looking. Well,
looking to be flirted with and get their mojo on, anyways. If you're willing
to deal with that and to not place too much expectation on whether or not
they're actually seriously looking and move on, then you can find some very
good people.
Something like a coffeeshop is more to my taste; you really get a
chance to find out what someone's like when they open their mouth and actually
speak. But make sure that you're actually awake and witty when you go there,
if that's your mission.
As to strategies, what works, Nike had the right idea. Just ask. If
someone's not interested, they'll let you know. If you don't ask, assume that
it ain't going to happen. There are exceptions, but they're pretty few and
far between. If you can't ask, or can't carry off flirting with someone well
or figuring out a good thing to ask someone to join you in doing
spontaneously, find someone who can, and learn how to do it by watching them.
|
senna
|
|
response 117 of 155:
|
Jan 9 20:36 UTC 2002 |
Ignore what people say about dating, and watch what they actually do.
Most people don't seem to be conscious of what they're doing, if they're
doing
anything at all, and if you ask them they'll give you a confusing piece of
what they're willing to admit of what they're conscious of, which often
That's actually a useful strategy most everywhere in life, particularly when
involving recurring topics that are essentially public record.
Sorry about the formatting.
|
orinoco
|
|
response 118 of 155:
|
Jan 10 02:03 UTC 2002 |
I am ignoring what you say about formatting, senna, and watching what you
actually do.
|
flem
|
|
response 119 of 155:
|
Jan 10 16:13 UTC 2002 |
Tangentially related: Do people actually meet other people at coffeeshops?
As an Ann-Arborite born and bred, I've spent my share of time in coffeeshops,
and don't think I"ve ever met anyone new that way. People just don't seem
to talk to strangers in coffeeshops. Or, at least, not when I'm around.
|
senna
|
|
response 120 of 155:
|
Jan 10 20:59 UTC 2002 |
I don't know. I haven't really met anyone there that I wasn't already going
to meet, but I'm not that outgoing of a guy. The difficulty is finding
contexts where the intentions are the same.
|
phenix
|
|
response 121 of 155:
|
Jan 10 21:40 UTC 2002 |
yha, finding anyone worth talking to if you'r enot some sore of
cafe pimp daddy (see: jester and other NAC crew)
|
orinoco
|
|
response 122 of 155:
|
Jan 10 22:00 UTC 2002 |
No, please don't.
I think senna hit the nail on the head. Even if I _did_ regularly strike up
coffee-shop conversations with strangers, and even if they were well-recieved,
I doubt I'd get any dates out of it. Nobody goes to coffeeshops to cruise,
so cruising at a coffeeshop isn't worthwhile, which is why nobody does it.
Vicious cycle.
|
michaela
|
|
response 123 of 155:
|
Jan 10 22:58 UTC 2002 |
Sometimes I'll spot someone reading an interesting book, and I'll comment on
it, but my intentions aren't to "cruise".
|
jaklumen
|
|
response 124 of 155:
|
Jan 11 06:20 UTC 2002 |
Cafes and coffee shops never appeared to be like that to me, either.
*however* I suppose it would depend on the place. I used to go to a
place called Pangea in Walla Walla when I attended Whitman. People
did all sorts of things there. It was generally blaring music, so not
many people were reading. Some would play board games. Then there
was the drum jam night-- bring your own drum or use one of the house
perc's.
I had fun at one of those jams and I guess someone noticed I was quite
confidently doing so because she came up and said so, in an admiring,
perhaps flirty way. Mind you, the opportunity wasn't at the place
itself, but-- you never know.
I suppose, then, it could be worth it to invest time in places that
sponsor open mic nights for music, poetry, etc. and you might get a
few fans that will ask you to sing a little "Amore." ;)
|
jazz
|
|
response 125 of 155:
|
Jan 11 19:12 UTC 2002 |
Re: #119
Yes, they do, but ironically, Ann Arbor is a horrible place to do it.
The further out you go, the more willing people are to start conversations
with strangers, or invite people they don't know all that well to do things
with them. Ypsilanti and Saline both have thriving coffeeshop communities,
and it's the same way further downriver.
Re: #122
Nobody goes to coffeeshops to cruise - my point exactly. There are
a lot of really wonderful people out there who *never* go to a place with the
intention of trying to pick someone up, and they're generally saner and more
desirable as a rule. If nothing else you know that they're not serial
monogamists who find it easier to pick someone new up than to maintain their
existing relationships.
It's a completely different ballgame, meeting, spending time with, and
occasionally dating people who aren't actively looking. You have to have a
different attitude about things - you have to be looking for a good time out
first, and a date second - but you get a good chance to get to know someone,
and to see how they interact with people around them, and that's proved very
valuable to me.
All things considered, I have probably a dozen close friends whom I've
met through coffeeshops, and at least three times that number of casual
acquaintances, and at least three long-term relationships have come out of
that, not counting the one I met at a coffeeshop at a GREX-sponsored event.
;)
|