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Grex > Coop9 > #55: Motion: To allow unregistered reading of all conferences | |
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| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 367 responses total. |
nestene
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response 100 of 367:
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Feb 23 02:38 UTC 1997 |
As I stated in item 54(?), I voted against the last proposal and will vote
for this one. Selena, don't assume the silent masses agree with you just
because the haven't shouted you down.
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kaplan
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response 101 of 367:
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Feb 23 03:35 UTC 1997 |
Re 96: I hope Mary does not withdraw her proposal. I did not vote
against the previous proposal because I feel that strongly about
anonymous reading. I simply thought that proposal was too complicated
and would cause arguments and burdens on staff time beyond any benefits.
Ladymoon, your job is not to try to get Mary to withdraw her proposal.
It is to convince me and other members that we shouldn't vote for it.
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remmers
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response 102 of 367:
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Feb 23 14:43 UTC 1997 |
My sentiments are basically the same as Mary's, Peter's, and
Jeff's. I voted against the previous proposal but will vote for
this one.
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scg
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response 103 of 367:
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Feb 23 17:44 UTC 1997 |
Me too.
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srw
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response 104 of 367:
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Feb 23 18:52 UTC 1997 |
I find myself totally agreeing with Mary, and would have proposed the same
proposal she has proposed once I found out that Valerie's failed.
I take issue with the following argument, proposed by most opponents to
unregistered reading. I will select Robh's presentation of it as an example,
but I don't object any more to his version than anyone else's:
In resp:94, RobH says:
jenna makes a valid point in #90 - if these theoretical potential
users can't figure out newuser, how the *^&()*^ are they supposed
to figure out PicoSpan, or even BackTalk? Honestly...
It is not that they cannot figure out how to run newuser. That is not the
case, nor the issue, even. It is the fact that newuser represents a
psychological barrier. The barrier comes from the fact that getting an account
created is (if not here on grex) in most people minds a major big deal.
They *perceive* that the creation of an entity here, their account, is not a
step they want to take, just to be able to see what's inside. It's not that
they can't, it's that they don't want to. By allowing unregistered reading,
they will be able to see it, and some small fraction will decide that we are
worth joining. That small fraction are highly selected to become useful
members of Grex, and yet they would never have looked if an account had to
be created for that purpose. The perception is the key to understanding.
It is very easy for you who already have accounts to poo-pooh the amount of
effort required. It is a psychological barrier, not an effort.
So that is why I think unregistered reading will benefit Grex and is the right
thing to do. That and all the reasons Mary, John and others have stated.
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scg
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response 105 of 367:
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Feb 23 20:27 UTC 1997 |
I'm in support of anonymous reading largly because of my experience with other
systems out on the Net that require registration. HotWired and Electronic
Minds come to mind. Both of those are systems that I've gotten curious about
and wanted to look at, but didn't really have any reason to suspect that I
would want to come back later. I did go through their newuser programs, since
I had to to get access, but since, not knowing what was on the systems, I
didn't have much reason to think I'd ever go back I didn't bother to remember
my password. I suppose those are both systems I might have returned to after
my first visit, except that figuring out what I have to do to get my password
reset seems like too much of a hassle. And then there are all the other
systems I've happened on that required people to register before using the
system. Generally it seems like more bother than it's worth when I don't know
what's there, although who knows, I might have found some other systems I
liked if I hadn't had to go through the hassle of registereing before I could
find out what I was registering for.
In the case of Grex, I think unregistered reading would be a very good thing.
I think we all agree (except maybe Richard) that anybody who wants to become
a regular user should register. The question, though, is how people should
find out that Grex is something they want to use, instead of going off to some
other system. Typically now, people find out about Grex from friends, which
is fine, but it certainly doesn't get us a very diverse group of people. Once
people are told by a friend that Grex is something they should want to try,
filling out newuser isn't much effort at all. What I'm hoping with
unregistered reading is that people who don't have a clue what Grex is, or
why they should want to be here, will be able to find out what we are and
decide for themselves whether to join us.
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richard
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response 106 of 367:
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Feb 23 23:15 UTC 1997 |
Mary, Peter, Jeff, John, SCG, and SRW all voted against the previous proposal
but will vote yes for Mary's. Basede on the previous vote of 16 to 24, if
noone else changes their mind, the vote would be 21 yes 19 no. Since Valerie
and a couple of otehrs have stated they would vote yes on both proposals, I
tink the next vote could be close to an inverse of the previous one. The
votes are there.
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ladymoon
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response 107 of 367:
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Feb 24 01:19 UTC 1997 |
Well, I felt asking peacefully would be the better thing to try. Don't say
I never tried to resolve things without getting nasty first.
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valerie
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response 108 of 367:
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Feb 24 01:50 UTC 1997 |
This response has been erased.
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robh
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response 109 of 367:
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Feb 24 04:38 UTC 1997 |
Re 106 - You might also note that I voted "yes" on the previous
one, and will vote "no" on this one. If you're going to be that
exact about it. >8)
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rcurl
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response 110 of 367:
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Feb 24 08:31 UTC 1997 |
I am going to vote yes, because I believe that unregistered web reading
will yield far greater benefits than detriments. Even in the face of
possible detriments, we can evaluate them if they occur, and change our minds
if we judge them significant enough.
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albaugh
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response 111 of 367:
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Feb 24 17:19 UTC 1997 |
I'll be voting *NO* again (and again and again if necessary)
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rcurl
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response 112 of 367:
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Feb 24 18:19 UTC 1997 |
I had intended to state in #110 that I *preferred* the compromise, in
regard for those with concerns about unregistered web reading, but now
faced with the harder decision, I still opt for more access freedom
for reading.
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tsty
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response 113 of 367:
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Feb 25 10:40 UTC 1997 |
i wish there were a proposal to restart intro.cf and open *that* to
the web interface. if that's not the best-of-grex ... maybe just
open the coop item #57 to the web. that's a fine piece of work.
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valerie
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response 114 of 367:
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Feb 25 22:16 UTC 1997 |
This response has been erased.
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mary
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response 115 of 367:
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Feb 25 23:19 UTC 1997 |
John, anytime (after midnight) feel free to fire-up the
vote program with motion worded as in #0.
Thanks.
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richard
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response 116 of 367:
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Feb 25 23:23 UTC 1997 |
Jenna, will you still leave grex if Mary's motoin passes and all confs are
opened? Now that you are a member? I guess theoretically you could cancel
your membership and have the remainder of the money refunded to you. Which
would be a nice piece of change, which was intended for your use anyway.
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ladymoon
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response 117 of 367:
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Feb 26 00:12 UTC 1997 |
I'd encourage her to. Why support something that doesn't support you in
return?
I will also leave, which will probably shoot the "Yes" vote up by a few.
If it passes, I will look for a replacement FW for Sexuality II. I will not
have mmy name put on a conference that violates the little privacy its'
original posters had the day before.
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ryan1
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response 118 of 367:
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Feb 26 00:35 UTC 1997 |
It is not worth it to lose some Grexers, in the hope that other people
will join. Wouldn't you rather have your good friends to converse with,
rather than some new strangers that you don't already know? Sure,
having new Grexers is a good thing, but this is going way too far to try
to get more people to use Grex. It just isn't worth it.
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ryan1
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response 119 of 367:
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Feb 26 00:42 UTC 1997 |
Anyone ever read "The Fisherman and his Wife"? I feel that story can
explain this situation.
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dpc
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response 120 of 367:
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Feb 26 01:08 UTC 1997 |
What is the evidence that running newuser is a psychological barrier?
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valerie
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response 121 of 367:
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Feb 26 04:02 UTC 1997 |
This response has been erased.
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nsiddall
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response 122 of 367:
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Feb 26 04:06 UTC 1997 |
Selena, I will vote no on Mary's proposal, just because I don't want to
upset you and others who feel so strongly about it, even though I feel
myself that unregistered reading is probably a good idea. Otheres are
doing the same. Please take that in the spirit it is intended, and stay in
the community, and don't make this such a divisive issue.
It just is not that important a matter of principle, either way. Not
allowing unregistered reading does not really exclude anyone who wants to
be part of Grex, and only marginally detracts from marketing efforts, if
we really want to attract new users. Allowing unregistered reading might
cause more strangers to read your posts, but nothing here is private
anyway. You have no idea who I am, for example, and anyone in the world
may sign on at any moment, and read anything on here.
These arguments have already been made. Since we have to vote on it,
let's vote, and then move on.
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robh
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response 123 of 367:
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Feb 26 06:29 UTC 1997 |
Cannons to the right of us, cannons to the left of us, into
the valley of the shadow of Death we ride...
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nestene
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response 124 of 367:
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Feb 26 11:30 UTC 1997 |
Re 122:
Since you've decided to vote against your own judgement based on the fact
that it would upset Selena if we did something she didn't like, may I offer
the following argument in an attempt to change your mind?
Since your vote is based on how much others will be upset, all I have to
do is be more upset, right? So, if Grex decides to bar anonymous reading,
I will hold my breath until I turn blue and whine and pout forever.
How upset do I have to be before you become more ashamed of hurting me than
you are of hurting her? How upset do I have to be before you decide to
think for yourself, rather than wimping out the first time someone whines?
Whenever things change, someone gets hurt. Whenever things don't change,
someone gets hurt. You've paid your money, make your own choice. Don't
let Selena or Tsty or Kerouac or Robh or Chelsea or Popcorn or me or
anyone else make it for you. Grex needs *your* decision, as only you can
make it; that's how democracy works.
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