|
|
| Author |
Message |
| 25 new of 290 responses total. |
jep
|
|
response 10 of 290:
| 
Jan 19 19:44 UTC 2006 |
I have a largish and very old house. Will a WiFi signal go through the
walls and floors without causing a problem? A wireless solution sounds
easier than running cable if it works well enough.
|
mcnally
|
|
response 11 of 290:
|
Jan 19 19:54 UTC 2006 |
re #6:
> Well, mostly... mcnally and/or marcvh say to use CAT-6 and not Cat-5E;
> some day I will want it.
Most importantly, do multiple runs, even if you leave most of the cable
unterminated in the walls.. Twisted pair is pretty versatile stuff.
Maybe you won't use it for a data network -- perhaps you'll use it for
telephone, or for speaker wiring. The important thing is that it'll be
available when you want it.
> But for the computers, should I plan for fiber optics instead of the
> network wiring which looks like a thick phone cable?
Running fiber within the house isn't likely to make a lot of sense --
fiber is (comparatively) expensive and difficult to work with. Good
quality twisted pair can carry gigabit ethernet which should provide
more than enough point-to-point bandwidth for several more generations
of home network devices..
Also remember that with the data networks, within a room you don't
need a wire running through the wall for each network device, you can
install a small hub or switch and connect several devices via one
cable run.
re #7
> Is the NID powered by the phone company? If not, what if you
> have a power outage? Can you still make phone calls?
No, the NID in my house is DC powered, fed by a wall wart that's
plugged in inside the house. It consumes too much juice to be line
powered. But it has an interesting failover mode. If it loses
power the last thing it does is bypass the analog telephone adapter
circuitry and switch things so the inside house wiring is connected
back to the incoming copper pair. Then when the softswitch which
provides my VoIP service discovers that my NID has gone dark it
can automatically reprogram the Nortel switch that used to provide
my dialtone to re-enable that pair, essentially switching my voice
traffic back to POTS for the duration of the power outage.
|
tod
|
|
response 12 of 290:
|
Jan 19 20:12 UTC 2006 |
re #11
That's hardcore. I like the idea of auto-POTS for failover.
|
nharmon
|
|
response 13 of 290:
|
Jan 19 20:19 UTC 2006 |
Yeah, thats the first time I've heard of that before. hardcore indeed.
|
marcvh
|
|
response 14 of 290:
|
Jan 19 20:47 UTC 2006 |
It is pretty sweet. I still haven't dropped the POTS (my wife likes it)
but we really should. I suspect that VoIP backed up by mobile provides
sufficient reliability for most residential uses these days (I wonder
how it compares with what Ma Bell provided back in the day?)
One important thing to note to jep is that all of these recommendations
are premised on the idea that it is easier for some reason to pull wire
now as opposed to adding it later, e.g. because the drywall is open
anyway or the holes are accessible or whatever. If that's not true for
your situation, and adding wire later would be no more difficult than
doing it now, then there's little reason to run more wire than what is
needed for your immediate uses. That's how my own house is set up;
unfortunately there wasn't a lot of connectivity put in place in
advance, so I just add new stuff as I need it.
There's a good chance that your immediate needs could indeed be serviced
by a WiFi setup, but obviously that won't help get cable TV into multiple
rooms.
|
tod
|
|
response 15 of 290:
|
Jan 19 20:50 UTC 2006 |
I like POTS cuz its cheap.
|
nharmon
|
|
response 16 of 290:
|
Jan 19 20:55 UTC 2006 |
Two story homes are horrible for running cable inside of. I'm currently
looking into the suitability of running plenum rated cables through the
ductwork.
If that doesn't work, maybe I can rip out some baseboards along the
stairs and run cables in them.
If you can run cables when you build the thing, RUN PLENTY. Others will
thank you later on.
|
marcvh
|
|
response 17 of 290:
|
Jan 19 21:06 UTC 2006 |
I suppose the ideal house to wire would be a ranch (we call them
ramblers) with an accessible attic and basement (or at least crawl
space.) But a two-story with both can work OK too; that's what I own.
The worst houses I've ever seen to wire are either old (like a hundred
years old, with lathe & plaster walls and knob & tube electricity) or
brand-new (split entries and townhouses, built on a slab and with
cathedral ceilings which mean no attic access.)
|
jep
|
|
response 18 of 290:
|
Jan 19 21:43 UTC 2006 |
My house was built in 1850. It's been added on to several times over
the years, and updated a great deal, but it's still an old house.
Parts of the basement and crawl spaces are nearly impossible to get
into.
I can get to the rooms I want to run cable into, but if I know I'm
going to need wiring in some rooms, then I'd rather run it all at once
than to go back and do it again later. That part of your suggestion
made sense to me.
I'd still like to know more about how and why household appliances, in
addition to media such as televisions and stereos, are going to be
connected to networks.
|
kingjon
|
|
response 19 of 290:
|
Jan 19 21:51 UTC 2006 |
Re #18, last paragraph: The "dream" as so often articulated by
what-the-future-will-be-like "prophets" is that, say, your refrigerator will
notice when you're out of milk and tell you (or, in some versions, order it
automatically). Similarly, I heard (second-hand) a news story about a
university where the washing machines in the dorms are on the network so it's
easy to remotely see how close to being done one's load is or what machines are
currently free.
|
tod
|
|
response 20 of 290:
|
Jan 19 21:55 UTC 2006 |
I have x10 in my house but its all RF. No need for wiring nor WiFi other than
the x10 RF transceiver for the serial port on my PC.
x10 interacts with all sorts of appliances and home security devices and you
can script most of it with perl into a web interface simply enough.
|
marcvh
|
|
response 21 of 290:
|
Jan 19 22:22 UTC 2006 |
X10 primarily operates via signals sent over power lines; RF is
secondary and only some X10 devices support it. I used to have a bunch
of X10 stuff but it was so flakey that it proved more annoying than
useful. The controller box was super smart, and I could program it to
turn my porch light on at dusk and off at dawn; it would automatically
adjust to different times of the year. But once a week (or so) it would
lock up and leave the light on or off all day, requiring that I reboot
it and resynch it with my PC. My wife told me the result was annoying
and useless, and I had to admit she had a point.
The most obvious application for a wired refrigerator today is the
fridge with a TV built into the door, which obviously requires you to
have a cable outlet in the area. You can already buy one of these right
now, if you really want to.
Some people have suggested that their fridge could automatically keep
track of its contents, and use the Ethernet to warn you when the milk
starts to go bad or you're out of cheese. I'm kinda skeptical of this
application. Remember 25 years ago when everybody was talking about how
you needed to buy a PC (or Apple ][+ or whatever) and get a database
program so you could enter all your recipes into it and use it to look
them up later? Did anybody ever actually do that?
A network connection might be a good way to monitor the fridge's
operational parameters. You could pull up a page that would tell you
things like how many hours the compressor has been running lately and
how that compares with the long-term average, how long since the water
filter has been changed, and whether some idiot left the door open.
That would be reasonably easy to use, and would have some value; most
importantly it doesn't impose an extra burden on you to inform the
refrigerator of your daily goings-on. If things advanced to the point
that it was only an extra $5 for a fridge that did this, hey, why not?
|
kingjon
|
|
response 22 of 290:
|
Jan 19 22:25 UTC 2006 |
(I didn't say this wasn't "pie-in-the-sky.") But the assumption is that by that
point you'll be doing your shopping over the Internet anyway, and everything
will have tracking chips in it so that you won't have to tell it what's in
there because it'll detect it when it goes in.
(I don't think this'll happen anytime soon -- but, then again, I'm more and
more wishing for the simpler time when the Internet was a network of
universities and "going online" meant Grexing.)
|
tod
|
|
response 23 of 290:
|
Jan 19 22:36 UTC 2006 |
They had coke machines on the Internet when I was at RIT. You could see how
many were left in the machine. This was 15 years ago.
I primarily use the x10 controls for motion sensors..
|
mcnally
|
|
response 24 of 290:
|
Jan 19 22:38 UTC 2006 |
re #18: How about your thermostat? In multiple rooms? I think
more sophisticated climate sensors may start to become more popular.
After you take your shower would you like the fan to come on in
your bathroom and then shut off again automatically after the
humidity had dropped below a certain level? I probably would,
living as I do in a very humid climate.. Or maybe you'd like your
blinds to come down when you're out of the house during the day to
save on your heating and cooling bills. Maybe your heating oil
tank could use a sensor, if you have one. We're still waiting
for someone to do the Smart House concept right (cheap, reliable,
and useful..) but eventually someone will make it attractive.
|
mcnally
|
|
response 25 of 290:
|
Jan 19 22:41 UTC 2006 |
re #21: Marc's response brings up another category of things that
might benefit from network connectivity -- major appliances that have
defined maintenance cycles. If it's cheap enough to put a web-based
control interface into a wireless router that sells for $20.00 it
ought to be cheap enough to put such an interface into, say, a hot
water heater or a furnace.
|
jep
|
|
response 26 of 290:
|
Jan 19 23:34 UTC 2006 |
I guess the computerized refrigerator doesn't realy grab me. But, I
can imagine some useful things which could be done via a network,
allowing parts of the house to be controlled by computer. For example:
1) If I could control power outlets from my computer, it would sure
make it easier to turn my Christmas lights on and off according to the
time of the day. It's a little bit difficult to coordinate mechanical
timers, even if they are the same type. I had 5 of them this year, and
they turned my lights on/off over a half hour period.
2) It'd be nice to have the computer control my furnace. I'm getting a
timer which can turn the heat down during the day. The trouble is, I
work 8-5 some days, 11-8 other days, 9:30 - 6:30 yet other days, and
I'm home on weekends. If I worked 8-5 every day, a thermostat timer
would be great. It'd also be nice to be able to log on from work and
tell it I'm working late so don't bother to heat up the house for
another hour or two. Or that I'm coming home from vacation a day early.
3) As I recall, the X10 company got really nutty and started
advertising things like spy cameras to put in the bathroom, for use by
pornographers. Didn't they get sued out of existence for that stuff?
But remote cameras ought to be useful, to show who's at the front door,
monitor the driveway, be able to see the baby in the next room, etc.
Webcams are pretty popular to provide video conferencing. (I'd get one
for my mother, who would doubtless love it, but then she'd be able to
see what a mess the house is.)
4) Why not hook up an alarm clock so it can tell the coffee pot when
you're getting up?
|
tod
|
|
response 27 of 290:
|
Jan 19 23:35 UTC 2006 |
Remember that movie The Demon Seed? Yea, that was cool....awesome!!
<said in enthusiastic Chris Farley clamor>
|
twenex
|
|
response 28 of 290:
|
Jan 19 23:38 UTC 2006 |
Was that satire?
|
marcvh
|
|
response 29 of 290:
|
Jan 19 23:56 UTC 2006 |
X10.com pissed a lot of people off with a combination of pop-under ads
(they were among the first to use this new annoying mechanism to get
their word out) and ads for cameras which included clip art that could be
inteprepted as meaning you should use them to spy on women in the bathroom
or changing clothes or something. I don't think the quality of video they
produced would be good enough for any self-respecting pornographer. They
still exist, and their ads still feature pictures of attractive women but
they're not in changing rooms or other vulnerable settings.
I'm not sure that automated window control systems will become practical
anytime soon. There are motorized automation devices you can buy (the
DrapeBoss and its successors) but they run, when coupled with
controlling infrastructure, something like $100 per window. They'd have
to put a pretty big dent in your heating bill just to break even during
the few years the device will likely last before it flakes out.
I tend to be a believer in a "less is more" theory of home automation
now. For example, I have a motion-sensitive light switch in my
bathroom; when I enter, the light comes on, and stays on for a few
minutes after I leave. It's self-contained, very basic, and works
reliably. Next to it is a timer-switch controlling the fan, so if I
find that the bathroom is in need of fresh air, I just hit the "10
minute" button and the fan will run for that long and then stop. It's
not fancy, doesn't sense humidity or anything, but it works well enough
without becoming annoying.
|
tod
|
|
response 30 of 290:
|
Jan 20 00:04 UTC 2006 |
x10 is available off the shelf
For video surveillance, I wouldn't waste my money on x10. You can get a whole
setup for less than a grand to cover most small business or homes.
|
rcurl
|
|
response 31 of 290:
|
Jan 20 00:28 UTC 2006 |
First, re #10: yes, WiFi works through walls and floors. I use it between
the older (wired) computer LAN on the second floor and the cable entry
point on the first floor. I have, when I've chosen to check, found other
WiFi servers somewhere nearby (because they haven't blocked their SSID
signal). The range might be up to a couple of hundred feet.
I also have X-10 over the powerlines, but for one-way control only. I use
a stand-alone transmitter that I program with my computer. I don't like
the idea of two-way systems that require that the computer always be on.
My X-10 system has been very reliable. It controls some 30 lights. Once in
a while a light doesn't go on or off - some noise burst, probably, has
interferred with the system. What you can do is program duplicate on or
off signals a minute apart to reduce such rare malfunctions even further.
The X-10 system offers several benefits. I found that as soon as I had it
installed that our electric consumption took a significant dive. The
reason is that lights don't get left on accidentally. I also run the
outside lights slightly "dimmed", which increases their lifetime
considerably. In addition, the X-10 system makes the house appear occupied
when we are away. It includes a random timing feature so the same lights
go on and off at different times within a window of an hour or a half
hour. I am considering getting a drape drive, but primarily as another
security feature. For that, I can justify $100.
|
nharmon
|
|
response 32 of 290:
|
Jan 20 00:49 UTC 2006 |
This response has been erased.
|
nharmon
|
|
response 33 of 290:
|
Jan 20 00:49 UTC 2006 |
I've been meaning to put in an X10 system on my front porch so when I or
the wife walks up to the front door, the sensor will detect motion and
turn on the porch light to make it easier to find the correct key. X10
seems to be well suited for tasks such as this.
Of course, thats on my list to do right after I input all of my recipes
into a mysql database...and then write a program where I tell the
database what ingrediants I have available, and it suggests recipes I
could use with them.
|
keesan
|
|
response 34 of 290:
|
Jan 20 01:00 UTC 2006 |
You can buy lights at the hardware store that come only when they sense
motion, only if it is dark out. The settings are adjustable, and they can
be set to stay on for different durations. You can also run your bathroom
fan on a dehumidistat and/or timer, so it comes on only when it is humid and
stops when it is dry, or you turn a mechanical knob to start a mechanical
timer that will run up to 15 minutes, or an hour. None of this is
whole-house. It is good for your health to pull shades up and down.
|