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| Author |
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agent86
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punk music gone soft?
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Nov 18 17:34 UTC 1997 |
Is the punk scene dead?
What happened to the counterculture scene in music? Punk music now seems to
be completely identical to "alternative." Despite the fact that it has been
diveded into like a million subcategories, which a musical form dedicated to
being against the flow/being uncategorizable shouldn't be, it all sounds
exactly the same: break beat beat beat beat bridge break vocal. :)
Hmmm... has punk gone soft? From what I am seeing, all punk music now is about
*looking* like a "punk," not singing like one -- "Oooh! Look at me! I have
died hair and I look like Keith Flint from Prodigy! I must be a punk singer!".
What do you think?
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| 99 responses total. |
lumen
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response 1 of 99:
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Nov 18 23:21 UTC 1997 |
According to some on this cf, punk has died a number of times-- this time
would make it three, if I remember correctly. The first time was in the 70's,
the second time was in the early 80's when punk elements merged with pop, and
I guess the third time would be now.
Perhaps we should ask, "What is Johnny Rotten doing now?" I believe he is
one of the grandfathers of punk. How many people have truly followed his
lead? What happened since his recent appearance and the creation of a punk
alternative to Lollapalooza (I forget the name)?
In the past, a lot of styles were categorized as punk. Remember when Elvis
Costello was considered punk (well, perhaps he still is considered as such)?
How many times has punk been mixed with other styles? Has the original
article been lost?
Personally, I'm glad that musicians are finally growing numb to raw
expressions of anger-- it made me ralph. I liked Billy Idol-- punkpop--
because it was more of a sneer than a yell, and it had a controlled attitude.
There was some musical skill, too, but I'm sure that's debatable..
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scott
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response 2 of 99:
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Nov 18 23:41 UTC 1997 |
Punk is, by its nature, subject to die-offs and reappearances. Think of it
as a scavenger animal or insect... when the bulk music culture gets too soft
and diseased, punk experiences a sudden reappearance.
THere is currently a small thread about it in a newsgroup I follow,
rec.music.makers.bass, but it will likely end soon.
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cabbage
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response 3 of 99:
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Nov 19 08:13 UTC 1997 |
I think the question we need to ask first, is what is punk. Like above, punk
is more than a haircut or color, but is it the vocals or the music. I think
that the only way you can get into teh punk/grunge scene is to see little
known bands. The main problem punk keeps "dying" off is cause it gets
popular. The whole point is not to sell out, and when you do it becomes
altenative, and when you don't you don't get to eat. That si the
problem.... I thin kalot of the mainstream out there is actually alternative,
and alot of the alternative is actually punk, its all just a cross breeding
between the two. In this day and age you cannot cater to one type of music,
and still be popular, thats why alot of bands (Beck, Goldfinger, Green day)
all have songs from many different styles. Oops, I talked too much, sorry.
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agent86
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response 4 of 99:
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Nov 19 15:14 UTC 1997 |
See, I don't think that people can just view small bands cause when people
actually like music, it has this nasty tendency to get popular. A lot of
people I know who are heavy in the Chicago and New York counterculture scenes
always say, "I only like to watch independent bands." Problem: you watch them
and they go and get popular on you.
So, I guess Punk has to die off even more regularly than it appears to cuz
it is a music form dedicated to counterculture, and music can't survive like
that.
My problem is that alot of the "punk" groups seem like they were created in
a boardroom at MTV: "Hey, Bob, have we elected the punk commision yet? No?
Well, get right on it! I wanna see some guys in overly-bright clothing by
MONDAY! I wanna see girls in ripped nylons!" Its all well and good I suppose
if punk goes commercial on me -- just not when it starts out that way and
seems to be a completely packaged, shrink-wrapped product, ala a non-punk band
(the Spice Girls, f'rinstance :)... anyways, now *I* have talked too much.
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orinoco
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response 5 of 99:
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Nov 19 19:52 UTC 1997 |
Cabbage...long time no see! Hi there!
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agent86
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response 6 of 99:
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Nov 19 20:40 UTC 1997 |
Cabbage! Long time never see! Hi there!
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cabbage
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response 7 of 99:
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Nov 21 07:10 UTC 1997 |
been longer than I care to admit. Anywho, counterculture is mainstream here
in ann arbor, which adds just a little too much to the mix for me...
Glad to here from some of my old pals. Unfortunatly, beware, cause I have
changed a tad (i.e. I grew up) It was bound to happen one of these days...
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agent86
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response 8 of 99:
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Nov 21 20:05 UTC 1997 |
Well, it's good that you can admit you have grown up. That is the first step
to dealing with adulthood. I have a 12 step program that can help... I used
to be an adult too. Actually, you always WILL be an aduly now, but I know
people who can help you deal with your cravings.
The first step is to sell your econobox car, if you have one, and buy a Miata,
which you can let me borrow for dates on weekends.
Step two: go to the mall. Buy new clothes. Ignore the cost. Now, shred them
and wear them in public. If you can afford it, go to Renaissance and buy a
really expensive party suit. Wear it to your job, after dyeing your hair to
match the suit.
Hope this helped... tell me when you have completed the first two steps, so
I can help you with the rest of your journey of success. ;)
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lumen
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response 9 of 99:
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Nov 22 03:49 UTC 1997 |
Why the hell should I buy a Miata?
I am still in college vying for my bachelor's, so money seems to just flow
away. Thinking about a master's, too. To top it off, I plan to be an
elementary music teacher, so I can't stay an adolescent for long!
Why am I responding when I wasn't part of the conversation? Well, at 23 years
of age, I still feel there are things I missed out on and that I need to catch
up to! I still wear black clothing from time to time, but I am still dreaming
of owning a black leather jacket, tight black flight pants, and black mid-calf
combat boots (Docs, maybe?) I already dyed my hair blonde..
I am a weird child of the 80's-- old enough to remember some of it
nostalgically, but young enough to consider some of it as novelty, and having
the freedom to pick out the good stuff. I am watching, with baited breath,
to see how the retro-80's fashion and style will go-- techno is on the upswing
:), anime is enjoying a comeback, and PVC is all the rage to wear. No clear
sign of New Wave.. but then, the music scene is different now than it was
then. Doesn't mean I yet adore domestic music..
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agent86
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response 10 of 99:
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Nov 22 19:49 UTC 1997 |
the best reason to buy a miata is to let me drive it. really.
or cuz you can't affor a boxster.
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orinoco
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response 11 of 99:
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Nov 23 17:48 UTC 1997 |
And becuase Miatas are _cute_!
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cabbage
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response 12 of 99:
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Nov 23 21:23 UTC 1997 |
yeah, cute isnt the word I would use, "too small to fit me" is more correct.
:)
Yay anime!
I actually took a polo shirt last night, ripped it apart, moosed the heck out
of my hair, and went out on the streets. It was cool...
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orinoco
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response 13 of 99:
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Nov 24 17:50 UTC 1997 |
Oh, another anime fan, is it?
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agent86
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response 14 of 99:
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Nov 24 20:05 UTC 1997 |
Well, if the Miata won't fit you, I guess that means that you can let *me*
use it more, huh? :)
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cabbage
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response 15 of 99:
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Nov 24 20:22 UTC 1997 |
that sounds about right...
I like anime, but I don't obsess, I just ike to support those who do
Its better than our cartoons, actually it's better than most of the TV here...
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teflon
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response 16 of 99:
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Nov 25 00:59 UTC 1997 |
...No comment....
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orinoco
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response 17 of 99:
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Nov 26 01:41 UTC 1997 |
Re#15: Decidedly so.
Cricket, you casting aspersions on my brand of crackheadedness?
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teflon
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response 18 of 99:
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Nov 26 02:23 UTC 1997 |
...No comment...
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agent86
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response 19 of 99:
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Nov 26 06:23 UTC 1997 |
Ok, hey, imagine this: a post that is actually relevent to the thread. Hot
shit, eh?
Well, here is the thing: there is another "Home Alone" movie coming out this
holiday season, Home Alone 3 i believe. Of course, the replaced McAuley "One
Trick" Culkin. I can here you wondering, "How the heck is a packaged, canned,
hack of a movie relevent to punk?"
Well, thats just the thing: it shouldn't be. But -- has anyone seen the
trailers for this (I honor it too much by calling it a movie... perhaps
"cimematically enhanced sitcom" would be a good phrase)? Anyways, if you have,
you might have noticed the music played over the tortured dialog clips: Tub
Thumping/Chamba Wamba. This is a band that has been called "punk" by the music
industry, but this incident makes me wonder just how packaged a group this
is... i liked their music too. Oh well.
Anyways, I previously stated I feel that it is OK for a group to make loads
of money, for a group to change format for its own artistic reasons, or
whatever else. This is no such thing. It is...
Selling Out.
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lumen
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response 20 of 99:
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Nov 26 07:01 UTC 1997 |
I agree with cabbage. I'm 6'1" and weigh about 265. Miatas are too too
small. Eek, man, you wore a polo shirt? I have a black loose-fitting one
and that's it. I wore them more when I was less fashion-conscious-- or
rather, less fashion-artistic. But I do love rubgy jerseys :) even love
playing the game, purely for recreation..
Chamba Wamba punk? Yeah, not likely, but I think we did agree punk is rather
dead. I like Tub Thumping, but it's not an example of punk at all. Now--
did we discuss Billy Idol at all? I mentioned him some. He had a successful
solo career after fronting two failed punk bands. That means he was tapping
into the sound that punk was going into-- yep, punk gone soft, or the merging
of pop and punk. Some said that was what New Wave was. Anyway, it's a
similar comparison. I don't know if Chamba Wamba came from a punk background,
though.
Anyone remember my question: just what is punk? I mean, they used to call
Elvis Costello punk, too. Post-beatnik, maybe. But not punk.
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goose
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response 21 of 99:
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Nov 26 19:18 UTC 1997 |
Punk will be officially dead when Tim Yohannon from MaximumRockandRoll dies.
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lumen
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response 22 of 99:
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Nov 26 19:31 UTC 1997 |
What about him? I mean, I haven't heard of the guy.
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agent86
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response 23 of 99:
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Nov 26 23:09 UTC 1997 |
I never said Chamba Wamba was punk, merely that that was how certain corporate
Music pushers were selling it.
I dont think it is -- don't worry. :)
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agent86
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response 24 of 99:
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Nov 27 05:38 UTC 1997 |
Well, is punk music that sings about counterculture or just associates with
it?
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