U2	Nov 3 18:18 UTC 1997

There was a U2 discussion beginning in the "happy" item (agora #5), 
and last night robh was offering to review the show for us in party.
So I decided we needed a U2 item.  
 
Here's the discussion so far from Agora #5:

>#205 of 216: by E. R. Bassey (other) on Fri, Oct 31, 1997 (01:52):
> i'm happy because the U2 load-in didn't cause nearly as much distress as i
> thought it would.  i started at 6pm and got home by 1:30 am.  there is a 20'
> tall mirrored lemon, a 100' swizzle stick with a green olive, and a video
wall > composed of one million LEDs in pixels of 8 LEDs each.  each pixel is
centered > about four or five inches from the next.  the centerpiece of the
stage is a > huge "golden arch" (singular) which has three spotlight positions
inside each > side of it, in addition to five more above and behind the arch,
and several > more out in the stadium.  i get to go back for the load-out at
11pm tomorrow. > whooee! > >#207 of 216: by kami landy (kami) on Fri, Oct 31,
1997 (21:13): > Whoa!  That's a lot of props, Other, for what was once an
"antiestablishment" > band. :}  Do you get to see the show? > >#208 of 216: by
Daria Morgendorffer (beeswing) on Sat, Nov  1, 1997 (02:28): > I went to the U2
show back in May. Gotta love the disco lemon. 
  I would have enjoyed the show more had the T-shirt I bought not gotten
  swiped.
>
>#211 of 216: by E. R. Bassey (other) on Sat, Nov  1, 1997 (18:09):
> i caught the last hour of the show.  the funky lemon rises, spins and moves
> out along a track into the crowd.  then a staricase rises out of the runway
> and the lemon opens to reveal the band.  i laughed heartily when the first
> of the band to descend crossed himself before stepping onto the stairway.
> 
> after the show, the band were whisked out of the silverdome in an unmarked
> van while prerecorded music confused the crowd a little bit.  i got out at
> 5am after spending most of the night hauling and coiling heavy power cables.
> 
> the LED video wall was definitely very cool.  and it folds up so neatly, too.
> 
> Kami, the whole artistic basis of this tour is as a commentary on crass
> commercialization within the rock 'n' roll industry. and the thin linebetwixt
> the sublime and the ridiculous...
>
>#212 of 216: by Daria Morgendorffer (beeswing) on Sat, Nov  1, 1997 (18:38):
> The guys did have looks on their faces like "We can't believe we're 
  doing this either" when they came out of the lemon.
>
>#213 of 216: by I don't think, therefore... (orinoco) on Sat, Nov  1, 1997
(21:35): > The whole thing strikes me as ludicrous.  Not that I have any
problem with > ludicrousity (ludicration? ludicritude?), but they don't have to
be so damn > pretentious about it. > >#214 of 216: by Mike McNally (mcnally) on
Sat, Nov  1, 1997 (23:01): >   It's always hard to tell with them whether
they're just trying to be >   super hip or whether they've crossed the line to
self-parody.. >  >   A big audio-video-stage extravaganza can make for an
interesting show >   as long as you're not expecting it to be like a smaller
venue concert.. >   I've been to one or two shows where the lighting, stage
effects, etc.. >   were so involved that one could conceive of going to watch
even if the >   band hadn't shown up.. > >#215 of 216: by kami landy (kami) on
Sun, Nov  2, 1997 (00:34): > Ludicrousness. <sp?> > Sounds like a lark, anyway.
 Music up to standard?  Glad they can laugh > at themselves.  Good tech is
fascinating. > >#216 of 216: by E. R. Bassey (other) on Sun, Nov  2, 1997
(16:49): > aside from the massive video wall, it was essentially a one trick
pony show. > the lemon.  whooee!

response 2 of 29:

Nov 3 21:25 UTC 1997

  Now that people have had a while to get used to it, any thoughts on
  U2's last album, "Pop" (or whatever it was called..)  I really liked
  Zooropa (must be the Eno fan in me..) but the initial singles from
  the recent album turned me off completely (especially "staring at the
  sun" -- I just couldn't get beyond the dopiness of the lyrics..  c'mon,
  "stuck together with god's glue" -- they're making a zillion dollars an
  album off that kind of tripe?) (thought "discotheque" was OK, but not
  brilliant, if that's a useful piece of data..)

response 4 of 29:

Nov 4 16:10 UTC 1997

I miss the old U2, back in the October days. They seem so full of themselves
now. Someone said that they could release a tape of them burping and farting
and it would sell a zillion copies. It seems the older U2 stuff came from the
guys having something to say. Now it's like just for the sake of making another
record. It's so weird to hear their stuff, and compare it to the older things.

response 6 of 29:

Nov 4 17:01 UTC 1997

One funny observation is that U2 were accused of being extremely full
of themselves back in the October-Unforgetttable Fire days.  The more
things change......

I couldn't afford to go to any of these recent shows, those tix are a
bit steep.

As for the music, I liked Achtung Baby, disliked Zooropa, and am lukewarm
on Pop.  I've listened to it a few times, and I liked it, but It's not
a disc that compels me to put it in the player very often.

Mike's right about "Staring At The Sun"....ewww...if only there were a 
permanant skip for that tune.

response 8 of 29:

Nov 4 22:42 UTC 1997

Re#7: I dunno, I've found that, with certain notable exceptions, the more I
listen to the tracks I object to, the more I get to like them.

I am a big fan of U2 up until Achtung Baby.  Zooropa was decent, as long as
you don't approach it with the assumption that you're listening to the same
band - just like I think early and late Beatles, for instance, have to be
seen as two different bands.  I have absolutely no interest in getting Pop.
It may be just fine, but the band's drifted far enough from the band I like
that I'm not going to buy an album just because it's got their name on it
anymore.

response 10 of 29:

Nov 5 04:55 UTC 1997

"Staring at the Sun"... bleh. ::Spit::

response 12 of 29:

Nov 5 14:38 UTC 1997

        Oh No! Not U2!

        For some years in the last decade they were on the radio
        and MTV so much it just gagged me, I ended up resenting
        them and tuning out everything they did. Not wanting
        people to think that I would like them just because
        they're from Ireland, my joke was that I disliked them
        because they're Irish.
        
        It's funny to see their early MTV videos now. They look
        young and unknown and they could be any of a number of
        nobody bands from that time.

        This decade the gag reflex faded away and I can enjoy
        some of their stuff (Where Streets Have No Name? That
        live video? I like it, I like it!). It's interesting to
        analyze some of their music: there are subtle variations
        in the melodies, he has to pretend like he is just
        making them up. That's their schtick: they have to 
        pretend it just comes naturally, they wake up in the
        morning wearing leather and rocking out, nothing is
        pre-planned, these subtle, methodical, careful
        melodic variations just happen spontaneously.

        Blarney.

        Actually I am pretty ignorant about most of their
        music. And I was very disappointed the way the
        rhythm section did that Mission: Impossible
        version: they removed the odd meter.

response 14 of 29:

Nov 6 00:42 UTC 1997

On the contrary-- I was impressed with Adam Clayton and ack.. I'm forgetting
his name-- in their work on that piece.  What-- you preferred that funky
meter?  I thought the change intensified the feeling of the work.  It fit the
movie, which was much more intense than the television show.  It was also
easier to dance to.  I'm sorry-- I like dance music, and I thought they
arranged it nicely into that genre.

You don't have to understand electronic dance genres-- I realize they are
lacking sometimes in musical quality as far as composition.  But they're made
to dance to, not necessarily to actively listen to.

Besides, it also makes great workout music :)

response 16 of 29:

Nov 6 05:06 UTC 1997

"Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" is on Joshua Tree, but a live
version with the New Voices of Freedom Choir is on the Rattle and Hum CD and
video. I like the live version much better. 

response 18 of 29:

Nov 6 22:24 UTC 1997

Re#16: As do I, but _nobody_ has heard it.

Oh, I don't much mind dancing to odd meters.  I've been known to dance to
Poignant Plecostomus, who do songs in 7 and 9 and other such insanity, and
lose only a few brain cells in the process.

response 20 of 29:

Nov 7 15:56 UTC 1997

Question for y'all who listen to pop radio: Is _Staring At The Sun_ one
of the singles they've been playing on radio?  I heard it yesterday while
standing around a store, and I think they had the Planet, or 89X or such
tuned in.

response 22 of 29:

Nov 8 00:29 UTC 1997

I was quite happy to have this discussion start up.  For some reason 
I've never bought many U2 albums, or listened to them much, even though
I generally like the hits I hear on the radio.  However, I seem to have 
exhausted the supply of 1980s rock bands, so today I went out and 
bought used copies of BOY and ACHTUNG BABY, based solely on comments 
in here and on vague memories of a copy of the BOY lp borrowed back 
when it was new.  And there is a copy of RATTLE & HUM buried in a box
somewhere in our house.
 
While I was at Tower I helped myself to a free listen of the new 
album, or at least some tracks of it, and I have to say that it 
sounded pretty good on first impression.

response 24 of 29:

Nov 10 01:48 UTC 1997

        I just did, whipped out the vinyl, dated 1978.

        "Heart of Glass (disco version)" 5:50 (D. Harry, C. Stein)
        
        Of course the tune lays down an unambiguous 4 beat, but
        then after the first two choruses it continues to vamp
        on the same chords but skips a few beats

        4       3       4       3       4       3       4       4

        I guess you could say there's three bars of 7 but that's
        really a stretch, it's really just 3 skipped beats.
        Weird thing is, that same section comes up a couple more
        times, but then it's all in four. It sounds odd then
        because you're expecting the skip beats.

        I would have put on Fade Away and Radiate and 11:59,
        but I would never have made it back to the keyboard . .

        re: 18, I think that version with the choir has been on
        MTV a bit . .