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krj
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Religion and Popular Music
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Oct 9 15:59 UTC 1997 |
This item spins off from comments in Mark's "Grab Bag" item, where
senna wrote:
#233 of 262: by In one ear and out your mother (senna) on Sun, Sep 28, 1997
(22:00):
The music industry execs are groaning... unknown-label band Jars Of Clay
debuted its new album high on the Billboard charts. I can just see Columbia
attempting to promote them out of radio.. heh
#248 of 262: by In one ear and out your mother (senna) on Fri, Oct 3, 1997
(01:12):
...
Jars Of Clay certainly pisses off most culture (they come to the area November
9 or thereabouts, I believe) and they'll never get played much on mainstream
radio (though I heard them on 103). Radio doesn't go for that sort of stuff.
(Is Forefront a BMG imprint? such was not my impression)
and lumen wrote...
#250 of 262: by Jon the Arborean (lumen) on Sun, Oct 5, 1997 (19:15):
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I'm up for an item regarding religion in pop music-- but I myself would tread
lightly there. Praise music is not an active part of my faith, and I
sometimes find it a little trite at times. But then, there are no well-known
Mormon pop composers. I believe it was Kenneth Cope who made a try for the
Christian music scene, but he just didn't make it.
So, here's the item: we can observe how a performer's religion affects
their music, we can just list religious performers, we can talk about the
Christian Music industry, whatever.
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| 33 responses total. |
mcnally
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response 1 of 33:
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Oct 9 20:19 UTC 1997 |
I find I can't stand the contemporary religious music that's played
on Christian radio stations -- it's too treacly and too monotonous
in subject matter for me to bear (and raises questions in my mind, too,
about the differences between the artists conception of deity and mine.
I find it difficult to conceive of a surprem being who would welcome
such vapidity but then I suppose it could be that the music is primarily
meant for those here on earth in which case I'm not getting it but then
I'm not "getting" Toni Braxton or Bryan Adams, either....)
In contrast to the contemporary religious music genre, there's little
room to dispute that some of the most powerful and beautiful music
ever composed and performed has been written to accompany religious
services and experiences. Furthermore, the institutions of religion
have, thoughout history, had a tradition of supporting, encouraging,
and preserving at least certain kinds of music.
Finally, I think some of the most moving religious music comes from
surprising sources -- for example the impact of the Velvet Underground's
plaintive and longing "Jesus" is immeasurably amplified for me by the fact
that much of the rest of their music describes life in a shadowy and
sordid world of drug addiction and abuse. For me there's not much
excitement in a band whose every song is about "praise Him, praise Him,
alleluia" -- too much of that sounds phoney, but an unexpected revelation
of an artist's personal beliefs tends to leave an impression whether I
agree with those beliefs or not.
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remmers
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response 2 of 33:
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Oct 9 22:02 UTC 1997 |
The quality of religious composers sure has declined over the
centuries. J.S. Bach was great! Of course, society is much more
secular then than now.
(That will be the sum total of my contribution to this
discussion, since I don't follow current pop music at all...)
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mcnally
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response 3 of 33:
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Oct 10 02:12 UTC 1997 |
Bach's works, Mozart's Requiem, all of the fantastic masses that have
been written -- these are certainly notable landmarks of religious
music. Easier to overlook, but equally impressive and fascinating in
a different way are some of the old spirituals.. It's not easy to
imagine music today without either of those influences..
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katie
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response 4 of 33:
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Oct 10 02:25 UTC 1997 |
I am the soloist at the church I attend. My most recent pieces, off the
top of my head:
"Quality Time" -Iris Diment
"This Is To Mother You" -Sinead O'Connor
"Petit Poulet" -Sinead O'Connor
"Closer To Fine" -Indigo Girls
"Secure Yourself" -Indigo Girls
"Orphan Girl" -Gillian Welch
"By The Mark" -Gillian Welch
"Abraham, Martin, and John" -forgot who wrote it
"People Get Ready" -Curtis Mayfield
"The Way I Should" -Iris Diment
"My Life" -Iris Diment
And over the last 3 years, I
er, I've done Beatles, Aretha Franklin, Bonnie Raitt, Emmylou Harris,
U2, Melanie, Carly Simon, James Taylor, John Prine, Janis Ian, Carole
King, and others I can't think of.
You can find a lot of spirituality in popular and folk music without it
being religious music.
I also canot stand modern contemporary Christian Radio Rock. Ugh. It's
like fake music designed to trick people.
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lumen
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response 5 of 33:
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Oct 10 22:07 UTC 1997 |
I repeat again-- Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) have pop composers, but they
aren't well-known at all. Perhaps it is because the music doesn't fit the
traditional "praise" format, or perhaps it is because that kind of music isn't
ingrained into our faith. We really discourage popular religious songs in
our services, and rather will use arrangements of well-known hymns. It's
because we are trying to let the congregation have their own spiritual
experiences, rather than to focus their attention on the talent of the
performer. In other words, we would rather let the music speak, rather than
the performer, and we would rather have music that speaks of the faith in
general rather than such that reflects an individual's opinion.
Fake music? Hardly. I've met good Christians who just listen to praise music
because the standards of that music are more like their own. It's hard to
abstain from pre-marital sex, drugs, alcohol, etc., etc. if you listen to
music that glorifies it or states it as the norm. I agree it's trite
sometimes, with its endless references to "Jesus," but you can't always reach
an audience with subtler statements. However, I agree wholeheartedly, Katie,
that secular music can contain a lot of spirituality. My own church leaders
advised me to use my own good judgment in selecting uplifting music.
Sometimes my friends murmured and supposed they only meant church and
classical music, but that's not true. All I can say is that one can't be too
careful-- so many musicians turn to things that don't give lasting solutions
to the pain. The superstars are the worst (actors, musicians, whatever)
because that kind of life just reaks hell on you.
Ok, I'm babbling. One group I found that is very religious but doesn't fit
the praise category is Seals and Crofts. Maybe it's because they're Ba'hai.
You mentioned U2-- they are considered to be a pop Christian band. Well--
at least their old stuff heavily reflects their Irish Catholic backgrounds.
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orinoco
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response 6 of 33:
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Oct 10 23:05 UTC 1997 |
While we're discussing non-Christian religious music, I'm surprised someone
hasn't mentioned Qawwali, which has been reciving a good bit of attention of
late. I was fortunate enough to catch Nusrat Fateh ali Khan when he was in
town a few years ago, and was impressed by the energy of the performance -
surprisingly similar to gospel music, actually, with a good bit of vocal
improvisation and call-and-response.
And I must say, endless "Jesus" references are no more tiresome than endless
"My Girlfriend Left Me" references you find in pop music.
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lumen
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response 7 of 33:
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Oct 11 21:08 UTC 1997 |
Amen, Dan-- but it's more like "101 Reasons why Love Sucks."
Don't even get me started on country music-- it seems to be just as trite or
more so, as well.
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scott
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response 8 of 33:
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Oct 11 21:13 UTC 1997 |
African-American gospel music is pretty good, though. It's the white stuff
that sucks.
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omni
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response 9 of 33:
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Oct 11 21:50 UTC 1997 |
I disagree. To not like one form of music is sort of elitist, imho.
Not all country music sucks. I'm not a big fan, but I have my share of CD's
by country artists (LeAnn Rimes, Lester and Earl, Chet Atkins and George
Strait). I will admit that some country songs leave much to be desired, but
when you hear a well sung, well written tune, you know it.
I have been known to listen to opera one minute, and then put on some rap.
Music is just a way of expression, and some people have different ways of
showing it. Please don't lump country up as one big heartbreak.
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scott
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response 10 of 33:
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Oct 11 23:44 UTC 1997 |
I've found that at least "hit country" (which of course is a stupid way
to judge an entire genre) is pretty pathetic. Everybody wants to sound
like George Jones, but I'm an Eddy Arnold fan. :)
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anderyn
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response 11 of 33:
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Oct 12 01:59 UTC 1997 |
I like the Irish group, Iona. It's like Clannad, only Christian. I have
heard that some folk performers I really respect are in it, but
I can't think of which ones right now. Anuna is another Irish group
that has some wonderful Christian music, but they tend to do more,
um, choral/chant stuff. Very nice.
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krj
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response 12 of 33:
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Oct 12 04:15 UTC 1997 |
Tim Harries, who is the bass player for Steeleye Span, is also in
Iona. (There's an Iona album floating around the house somewhere;
unplayed, dammit.) I have suspected that Harries came into the
Steeleye Spaan through a common interest in religion with Maddy Prior.
Prior did a very preachy album around 1983, GOING FOR GLORY, billed
to Maddy Prior and the Answers, which seemed to be quite an autobiographical
album about her religious conversion.
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senna
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response 13 of 33:
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Oct 12 05:55 UTC 1997 |
I'm very fickle in my pickings of religious music. Most of the contemporary
christian stuff being thrown out is something less than good, in my tastes,
but there are a few really good bands out there. My favorite element is the
way in angers the uptight pc secularists unprepared to handle that sort of
a barrage.
Christian Music's endless songs about jesus should come as no surprise.. it's
not like they're not claiming to be christian or something. It's not like
other bands arent' single minded either... you can count the numnber of songs
not having to do with desprair by NIN on one hand, and have some leftover
fingers. Even if it does get inane, nobody's forcing people to listen to it.
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orinoco
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response 14 of 33:
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Oct 12 19:46 UTC 1997 |
Of course, there is the issue of good music marred by the lyrics. I find this
leans in two directions - either the lyrics are so trite that I can't help
but dislike the song, or the lyrics are so intense that I feel uncomfortable
listening to them. Christian music tends to stray a bit far in one direction
or the other. Either it's droning on about Jesus, which is just as tiresome
as any other kind of droning, or it's so fervently telling me that I'm going
to Hell that I feel a bit out of place listening. Most Christian music I've
heard that I enjoy, I enjoy because the music is so good I can just pay
attention to it and ignore the lyrics.
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senna
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response 15 of 33:
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Oct 14 03:31 UTC 1997 |
Actually, almost no christian music is condemning. i haven't heard any of
it.
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orinoco
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response 16 of 33:
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Oct 14 21:27 UTC 1997 |
Depends on where you're listening. Get snowth to describe the music on the
radio in The Middle Of Nowhere, Illinois sometime.
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mcnally
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response 17 of 33:
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Oct 15 03:17 UTC 1997 |
If you say so, but my experience matches senna's -- haven't heard any
"you're going to hell" Christian music on the radio, despite spending a
fair amount of time listening in the west Michigan bible belt..
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snowth
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response 18 of 33:
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Oct 15 22:37 UTC 1997 |
I was going to. But give me a couple days.. I have to figure out how to word
it. If I just ad lib, it's likely to end up on some rant on Christians in
general.. which would be bad. Also, I want to look up the lyrics I rembered
at the time.
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goose2
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response 19 of 33:
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Oct 18 02:22 UTC 1997 |
My experience is like Mike and Senna's as well.
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snowth
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response 20 of 33:
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Oct 18 15:31 UTC 1997 |
I don't know, maybe it was just a bad day to be listening to the radio. But
while I was in the middle of Illinois (around Peoria) I spet about fifteen
minutes listening to the Christian radio channel, and there were two songs
on that I just found really *obnoxious*. The first one was along the lines
of "I believe in God because He makes me." (Really. That was the courus) The
second one, which got to me even more, was all along the lines of putting
bibles back into public schools. It wasn't even well done, it was just some
guy ranting above the music. Some of the lines I personally found most
annoying were "..when people would rather come out of the closet then clean
it up.." and "..instead of handing out condoms to high schoolers, hand them
the word of the lord.." Besides those, he had "statistics" as to how our
nation is slowly going to hell. The one I remember (there were more, but this
was the one that stuck in my head) was "..(This nation is) #1 in illiteracy!".
And while I'm not going to argue that there aren't illiterate kids in this
country, I think there have to be third-world countries out there where there
is no standard of education, and how many of those kids have decent reading
and writing skills?
Sorry 'bout all that. It really got to me. <Rant: off>
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senna
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response 21 of 33:
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Oct 19 05:48 UTC 1997 |
I'm not familiar with any of the lyrics you mentioned, though they do sound
rather inane.
Actually, one thing I've noticed is the large number of Christian musicians
and related groups promoting child sponsorship and relief missions for third
world countries. My sister sponsors a child herself, apparently.
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anderyn
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response 22 of 33:
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Oct 20 23:26 UTC 1997 |
Iona and Anuna tend to do most of their overtly Christian lyrics in either
Latin or Gaelic. Makes it a *whole* lot easier to listen to, and actually
is rather cool, since I can just shut my eyes and pretend I'm back in
the Celtic Christian era (many lyrics are poems from that time, too.)
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albaugh
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response 23 of 33:
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Oct 24 16:11 UTC 1997 |
This may be off topic, but it's my observation that religious music is no
different than other musci in this regard: It can be good, musically
speaking, or it can be bad. I.e. "quality". That's a separate issue from
a badly-written song of praise accomplishing its aim - to give praise.
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eskarina
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response 24 of 33:
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Apr 21 21:11 UTC 1999 |
To criticize worship music for focusing completely and totally on Jesus seems
kind of silly to me... the definition of "worship" that I am most familiar
with being to focus on Jesus and praise Jesus. Worship is not just music,
but a lot of the time it is in that form.
There are worship songs, and then there is the type of music you can get on
88.1 (our local Christian rock station) on Friday or Saturday night... wacky
alternative songs, techno songs, funny pop stuff... which is what people
listen to if they feel that they have been convicted by God to give up secular
music.
Its a stand in because, as stated before, pop music glorifies premarital sex,
drugs, whatever, and while these people may not want to listen to that, they
want to listen to something that sounds like it.
I guess its like drinking decaf coffee if you really like the taste of coffee,
but can't stand what caffeine does to you.
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