|
|
| Author |
Message |
krj
|
|
Getting Carded
| 
Feb 26 03:34 UTC 1997 |
Here's another item spun off from today's party chat. Several
high school-age participants were discussing getting carded when
buying CDs. I found this rather surprising; when I was a wee
whippersnapper, "getting carded" referred specifically to buying
alcohol.
Tell me your reactions to the age-control system which is developing
around buying music.
|
| 34 responses total. |
raven
|
|
response 1 of 34:
|
Feb 26 16:04 UTC 1997 |
I think it's awful. Buying music (of all genres) is a form of self education,
limiting access to pepoles choice in information (in this case music) can only
limit our horizens. Most the CDs targeted will be those from people who
are marganalized to begin with like African American's doing rap, and
performence artists like Karen Finly. I don't like the sexism in some
"gansta" rap but I think the solution is education about sexism, not age
based censorship.
|
otaking
|
|
response 2 of 34:
|
Feb 28 13:22 UTC 1997 |
Like books, I agre wth raven that "buying music (of all genres) is a form
of self education." Music should not be restricted based on content anymore
that books are. I can see a scenario where a kid tries to buy a gangsta rap
CD at Tower. The cashier refuses because of a warning label, so the kid
buys some erotic novel or some "How to Kill" book instead. The cashier will
gladly sell this, since there are no restrictions on books.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating carding kids for books. I think kids
should be able to read or listen to whatever they want to. Restricting their
educational choices would only injure us all in the long run.
(I don't know if Tower Records or books stores in general have a policy
regarding selling books with "adult topics" to minors. I'm just trying to
use a more extreme example fo my point.)
|
jradio
|
|
response 3 of 34:
|
Feb 28 19:57 UTC 1997 |
I don't know. I think if I had a kid, and he came home with one of these
gangster rap CD's, I would send him right back to the store to return it. I
do not want my kids listening to crap like that, and if carding will prevent
it, more power to it!
|
raven
|
|
response 4 of 34:
|
Feb 28 20:48 UTC 1997 |
re #3 Yes that should be your choice as a parent, but *please* don't force
the rest of us to abide by your standards. Who defines "gansta rap"
anyway? Are Public Enemy & KRS1 gansta rap? If so you are writing off
some of the most intelligent lyracists around, it might behove you to
listen instead of just writing off a whole genre of music. Yes some
"gansta rap" is extremly sexist even that material should be free from
restrictions IMO, we should educate people why the lyrics might be
offensive instead of jumping to censorship. <set flamethrower=off>.
|
jiffer
|
|
response 5 of 34:
|
Mar 2 05:25 UTC 1997 |
The "getting carded thing is rather funny. At Wal-Mart, on certain videos,
we card as well! rather lame and sick if you ask me. But then again, i
expect to get careded for ciggies, why not cd's as well. (Its not a good
thing to be 23 and look like i am either 12 or something rather teenageish.)
|
kewy
|
|
response 6 of 34:
|
Mar 3 03:22 UTC 1997 |
what videos do you card for? R? odd... i was in a walmart in canada this
morning... rather amusing:)
|
lumen
|
|
response 7 of 34:
|
Mar 3 03:33 UTC 1997 |
I'm not sure whether or not I agree with a carding policy for music labeled
for explicit lyrics. We would have to apply the same definition that we apply
to pornography (as society defines it). I happen to think, though, that if
it's as in demand and cigarettes and alcohol are, then kids will always find
a way to get these labeled albums. The choice will always lie ultimately with
the good judgment of the kids themselves and parental authority and
supervision. We could argue that carding strengthens a parent's position--
it can restrict kids when parents cannot, but it still comes down to freedom
of choice. The logical arguments are just as tangled as those for legalizing
drugs. The only difference here is that the consequences are not as
immediately or obviously malignant.
|
jiffer
|
|
response 8 of 34:
|
Mar 4 06:12 UTC 1997 |
katy: The rated R versions and anything above a PG13 i think. That is a
new thing they started about three months ago.
|
kewy
|
|
response 9 of 34:
|
Mar 4 20:02 UTC 1997 |
ew, that's skanky... is this just for buying? or renting too? cause i've
rented videos that were r, all by myself (aren't i a big girl) ah well.. life
does go on, and as the previous comment states, kids are gonna find ways of
getting around rules, no matter what.
|
orinoco
|
|
response 10 of 34:
|
Mar 5 21:15 UTC 1997 |
Even if there *were* some way to split up music and say 'this is Good For
Kids' and 'this is Bad For Kids' in such a way that everyone would agree, I
think carding would be a bad idea. As has been stated before, music is a form
of education, and listing some things as 'forbidden knowledge' has two
effects. First, it makes people want it more; second, it gives people a much
less healthy attitude towards it.
A good example is something I noticed many moons ago in 8th grade Health
class. Those kids who knew a lot about sex tended to be able to discuss it
maturely, while those who had been kept in the dark about it tended not to.
|
jiffer
|
|
response 11 of 34:
|
Mar 8 08:15 UTC 1997 |
well at block busters, they have it where the parents can restrict the kids
from renting rated r or whatever videos.... that is all i know.... i signed
it even though i don't have kids.
|
anderyn
|
|
response 12 of 34:
|
Mar 10 00:40 UTC 1997 |
Yeah, I did that too (signed the Blockbuster card saying I didn't want
my kids renting R videos).
Hhhhm. I hadn't heard of this before, and I don't think I like it. Carding
for MUSIC?! How bizarre! I admit, there are records I wouldn't like my
kids listening to, and I would be very ticked if they bought, but -- hey --
that's what a record store is for, to make music available to people.
It just seems really odd to hear about this!
|
senna
|
|
response 13 of 34:
|
Mar 17 02:19 UTC 1997 |
It's not like kids aren't exposed to the same stuff anyway. Preventing them
from hearing the umusic does not, say, prevent them from getting tons of
exposurte to the language in school. Or the same type of talk..l discussions
among high school guys can get pretty lewd. I should be pointed out that
carding for music is not a legal requirement... only stor e policy. Which
seems to me to be absurd in itself.
|
void
|
|
response 14 of 34:
|
Aug 5 22:20 UTC 1997 |
if carding kids who want to buy music is a store policy and not a
legal requirement, then i would encourage kids to send a message with
their feet and wallets...find stores which don't card.
|
lumen
|
|
response 15 of 34:
|
Aug 14 07:57 UTC 1997 |
Ideally, parents should be aware of what their kids listen to, but many don't
care enough. re #13: That's no excuse. Kids choose what kind of music they
listen to, but they don't choose to hear what they hear at school.
And by the same logic, is it fair that they card for R-rated movies, if you're
alone? Or do they do that anymore? (I mean in the theaters, not in the video
stores.)
|
orinoco
|
|
response 16 of 34:
|
Aug 14 17:06 UTC 1997 |
Thinking about this some, I've changed my opinion a little.
In an ideal world, people would be able to listen to a gangsta rap CD, or
watch some sleazy movie, or whatever, and go away from it with the
understanding that misogyny, murder, and general mayhem exist, but that they
are problems and not things to emulate.
Unfortunately, many people come away from these things thinking "wow, that
sounds cool. Mr. Rock Star's a sleazeball, so I want to be one too"
It pisses me off whenever I see an article in the paper denouncing Marilyn
Manson, violent television, or the internet for 'corrupting our youth'. I
find it offensive whenever people imply that kids can't tell the difference
between fantasy and reality. I would love to think that people my age and
younger are capable of forming intelligent opinions, having minds of their
own, and realizing that X may be a good musician or actor, but he's one hell
of a bad role model.
Unfortunately, of late I've seen far too much evidence that there are a lot
more sheep out there than I've thought, a lot more people who take an interest
in the occult just because of Marilyn Manson or act violent because of Tupac
Shakur , or whatever else. I wish I could say 'kids can deal with that sort
of thing, let 'em listen to what they want,', but I'm no longer convinced that
that's true
|
lumen
|
|
response 17 of 34:
|
Aug 15 03:18 UTC 1997 |
Yes, indeed, it seems the counterculture has produced the ultimate oxymoron:
Defy authority and rules to become your own person, but do so as massive
groups of followers. Kids aren't all making their own statement. The teenage
masses are just another buch of lemmings following the latest trend.
We shouldn't necessarily restrict them (because that is merely a short-term
solution), but we should educate them. I'm not sure if I can take on that
responsibility, because another musical generation gap seems to be looming.
|
mcnally
|
|
response 18 of 34:
|
Aug 15 04:47 UTC 1997 |
Well what do you expect? That's always been the way that the
counterculture has operated and at times its demands for
conformity have been considerably stronger than the primary
culture.. Basically the problem is that even if they wanted
to defy authority in original, individualistic ways instead of
as part of a comfortably conformant mob they wouldn't have the
faintest idea how to do so because they just don't have the tools
to be creative or individualistic..
|
lumen
|
|
response 19 of 34:
|
Aug 16 08:34 UTC 1997 |
I consider myself creative, and fairly individualistic in my tastes, so I grin
=)
|
mcnally
|
|
response 20 of 34:
|
Aug 16 20:02 UTC 1997 |
But what percent of your peers do you think are really creative or
original? Isn't that number distressingly low?
|
orinoco
|
|
response 21 of 34:
|
Aug 17 02:11 UTC 1997 |
What mcnally said.
|
lumen
|
|
response 22 of 34:
|
Aug 17 03:57 UTC 1997 |
Whatever. My opinion should matter the most to me, personally.
Geez, you guys have been jumping all over me lately in various items :P
|
senna
|
|
response 23 of 34:
|
Aug 17 05:02 UTC 1997 |
I'm extremely against mainstream counter culture.. I dislike the majority of
defiance minded teens as much as I dislike the authority on me. I'm not
particularly interested in satisfying any of these people, and for the most
part I'd prefer to be left alone by them. Their ideas for what I should do
with my life don't agree with mine.
|
lumen
|
|
response 24 of 34:
|
Aug 17 07:40 UTC 1997 |
That's why I think you're so cool, Steve :)
|