|
|
| Author |
Message |
teflon
|
|
But is it really?
| 
Nov 26 03:44 UTC 1997 |
This is a question that came up at my school a while ago, and was never
answered...
Lets face it folk, "Alternative" music has hit the mainstream. Frankly,
calling it "Alternative" is now wildly inaccurate. So what should it be
renamed as? Or, if you want an even bigger mind-bender, what should we rename
"Classical" music, since much of it certainly isn't classic, or from the
"Classical" period.
|
| 31 responses total. |
krj
|
|
response 1 of 31:
|
Nov 26 04:32 UTC 1997 |
"Alternative" now seems to basically mean non-geezer rock.
(Geezer rock, of course, would be Fleetwood Mac, Jimmy Page,
Genesis, old folks like that.)
|
agent86
|
|
response 2 of 31:
|
Nov 26 06:05 UTC 1997 |
As with all musical styles, i have decided that "alternative" refers to the
musical style more than anything else... which leads to another question: how
do establish what a certain style sounds like? I begin to think the only
difference between the CHili Peppers and Prokofiev (both of which make me get
up and jump) is the instrumentation and lack of vocals in the latter.
Why are Prokofiev and Mozart both be called classical, when they sound so
incredibly different? Instrumentation seems to be the big key here.
Perhaps it could be argued that it is the sequential nature of classical music
that makes it be termed "classical" (ie. Classical is non-repetitive to a
large degree, though it still has an underlying theme. Once again the Russian
composers come into play, though, as they *were* actually fairly repetitive).
If instrumentation is the key, what prevents "symphonic Led Zeppelin" or
"symphonic queen" or "symphonic beatles" where the London SO has performed
the pop groups pieces as a medley, from being classical? Anyways, don't flam
the hell outa me yet. I am a 16 year old DC punk type of guy (who loves Minor
Threat) so gimme some credit for actually listening to classical, huh? ;)
<There, I tried to use my age to get a sympathy vote>
|
lumen
|
|
response 3 of 31:
|
Nov 26 07:17 UTC 1997 |
I am nit-picky, so I usually when I refer to "classical" music, I refer to
Western European music of the Classical Era. If it's baroque, Romantic, or
Impressionist, I label it as such.
I had a more interesting discussion with an ex of me 5 years ago about her
opinion of why New Age should be relabeled.
|
goose
|
|
response 4 of 31:
|
Nov 26 19:21 UTC 1997 |
To the general public Baroque, Romantic, Impressionist, etc. would be called
"Classical" It stinks, but it's true.
"Alternative" is a marketing label. It used to be called "College Rock" but
then you limit your demographic. "Alternative" is pushed to the 18-34 crowd,
America's favourite demographic.
|
lumen
|
|
response 5 of 31:
|
Nov 26 19:39 UTC 1997 |
Yes, I'm acutely aware of this, Chris, and as a future music educator, I wish
it would change because I'm sure people are confused when I say I'm not fond
of Classical music (impossible to capitalize it when I'm speaking, you know).
Sure it stinks. But most of the general public is very poorly educated in
music.
Just like any other subject, just because you may not be talented in that area
or completely interested in all facets of it, doesn't mean you shouldn't be
informed. The music educator cringes to hear someone say, "I may not know
much about music, but I know what I like?"
The 18-34 crowd is America's favorite demographic because this age group has
the most disposable income, as a whole, has the largest variety of tastes,
which tastes fluctuate frequently and often, and spends a large amount of
money on music anyway.
|
krj
|
|
response 6 of 31:
|
Nov 26 19:59 UTC 1997 |
I thought the music was called "alternative" back when it vaguely was
alternative, back in the OP magazine days.
|
teflon
|
|
response 7 of 31:
|
Nov 26 22:57 UTC 1997 |
<a-hem> don't let me interupt your conversation here, but I was really just
trying to have some fun with this item...
|
bruin
|
|
response 8 of 31:
|
Nov 27 01:18 UTC 1997 |
RE #5 You're right. The 18-34 age group has the most disposable income, and
they sure dispose quite a bit of it. ;-}
|
orinoco
|
|
response 9 of 31:
|
Nov 27 04:16 UTC 1997 |
Hey, would that I had the honour of wasting that sort of money :)
Yeah, I sometimes have difficulty explaining that I don't like Classical
music, but I can listen to Bach's organ music or Beethoven's string quartets
forever. But I suppose if Tori Amos and 311 can be in the same section of
a music catalogue, so can Bach and Mozart.
|
agent86
|
|
response 10 of 31:
|
Nov 27 05:36 UTC 1997 |
Holy Market Demographic, Batman! I am the general public now, huh? That
stinks. I will have to attend an art school or something to give myself some
modicum of class.
<Andrew is embarassed beyond belief. How declasse!>
|
rcurl
|
|
response 11 of 31:
|
Nov 27 05:53 UTC 1997 |
Not to drift - but for my education - what defines "rock" music? (Someone
once told me what defines "jazz", but I forget now - some kind of chord
progression?)
|
orinoco
|
|
response 12 of 31:
|
Nov 27 19:38 UTC 1997 |
Rock music is like pornography - difficult to define, but you know it when
you see it. :)
I think rock music is defined by particular styles of guitar and drumming,
and perhaps a guitarist or drummer could elaborate further. There exist
certain 'Altenative' acts that don't fall under that umbrella - Tori Amos,
to use my earlier example - and those that do - i.e. 311.
|
rcurl
|
|
response 13 of 31:
|
Nov 27 22:54 UTC 1997 |
I'm hoping there is an absolute definition so one can read the music and
say it is "rock", or it is not. It must involve either rhythms or harmonic
progressions, mustn't it?
|
orinoco
|
|
response 14 of 31:
|
Nov 28 18:06 UTC 1997 |
Well, not necessarily. There's a big band arrangement of Enter Sandman, for
instance, that keeps the same rhythms and the same notes, but I wouldn't call
it rock.
|
agent86
|
|
response 15 of 31:
|
Nov 28 18:06 UTC 1997 |
I suppose what is really beginning to define what music falls into what
category IS radio, TV and the people selling music. "Classical" music stations
will play from Bach to Saent-saints (spelling?) to flute duets. In fact, the
common thread in all broadcast-mediums musical groupings is nothing more than
instrumentation.
|
goose
|
|
response 16 of 31:
|
Nov 28 20:05 UTC 1997 |
RE#14 -- There is a cello quartet arangement of it too! It's really funny,
but good as well.
|
rcurl
|
|
response 17 of 31:
|
Nov 28 21:21 UTC 1997 |
Re #14 and #16. Any tune can be performed in many different "styles". You
could probably do it as rap, ragtime, or an oratorio. But each is a well
defined musical idiom My question is then, when anything is played as
*rock*, what makes it so?
|
orinoco
|
|
response 18 of 31:
|
Nov 28 22:47 UTC 1997 |
I suppose a combination of relatively simple chords - i.e. none of the 7th,
9th, 11th chords that you get in jazz and the like - and the style of
drumming.
|
teflon
|
|
response 19 of 31:
|
Nov 29 04:14 UTC 1997 |
Hrmph... If you can arrange rock pieces classically, why don;t we hear
classical pieces done as rock?
|
tpryan
|
|
response 20 of 31:
|
Nov 29 16:19 UTC 1997 |
<tpryan gets out the rules for "You can sing anything you want to the
'Alice's Restaurant' game">.
|
orinoco
|
|
response 21 of 31:
|
Nov 29 21:24 UTC 1997 |
Well, there have been Baroque-ish things put into rock form before, Procol
Harum and the California Guitar Trio being the two that come to mind. I think
there are a decent number of stormy Romantic pieces that would work out quite
well in heavy metal arrangements, and some light Classical pieces I could see
as pop.
And there's Vanessa-Mae's vaguely pop-ish version of the Tocatta & Fugue in
D minor. (Actually, just the Tocatta end of it...I don't think she does the
Fugue, but it's been ages since I've listened)
I've been wondering for quite a while how Bach would work out as
techno...someday when I have too much time on my hands I'll have to give that
a try.
|
krj
|
|
response 22 of 31:
|
Nov 30 18:31 UTC 1997 |
Emerson Lake & Palmer, "Pictures At An Exhibition"
Ray Manzarek, "Carmina Burna" (which is so funny that it makes me fall over)
Apollo 100, Beethoven's "Ode to Joy"
|
goose
|
|
response 23 of 31:
|
Nov 30 20:42 UTC 1997 |
ELP's "Fanfare for the Common Man" (a Copeland piece)
The Who's "Hall of the Mountain King" (???)
Savatage's "Hall of the Mountain King" (again ???)
That God-awful "A Fifth of Bethoven" disco song.
Pete Townshend has some stuff on a solo LP that are experimantations with
Fugues in a rock context (If I recall the record correctly)
|
orinoco
|
|
response 24 of 31:
|
Dec 1 21:59 UTC 1997 |
Oh, how can I forget ELP?
I think they also did a version of the Copland piece which also got turned
into the 'beef - it's what's for dinner' ad. It's fairly well done, but I
can't listen to it without cracking up because it reminds me of the commercial
so much.
|