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khamsun
show support to Denmark! Mark Unseen   Feb 1 13:22 UTC 2006

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten_Muhammad_cartoons

As some norwegian fellows summarize here:
http://www.advar.org/eng.html
"Our purpose is to make Norwegians buy Danish goods, as an action of
solidarity with Denmark, which is currently being targeted for a boycott
by several Islamic countries.
The reason for the boycott is that the Danish paper Jyllandsposten, in
September 2005 printed drawings depicting the prophet Mohammed,
something most Islamic groups see as blasphemous. The aim of their
boycott is to make the newspaper and the Danish government apologize."

so few crazy right-wing imams got to drive a calomny and disinformation
against Denmark, with boycott of danish goods, the bunch of regular
threads (death to infidels!) and few muslim countries calling back their
ambassadors.

Show support to the poor danes, by making something good to you at the
same time.
Go buy some
--> beers: Carlsberg, Tuborg, Faxe,...
--> Aalborg Jubilaeums akevitt
--> danish butter cookies
--> danish ham, salami and sausages (Tulip, DAK, etc)
--> LEGO boxes for your children
--> cheese: blue or havarti

etc

43 responses total.
fitz
response 1 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 1 13:52 UTC 2006

Strange.  I thought that the Imans reserved such strong-arm tactics for
believers.

Are Gouda  and Edam cheese included.  Grolsch?
klg
response 2 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 1 17:14 UTC 2006

I'll pick up some Danish pastries on the way home.
marcvh
response 3 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 1 17:24 UTC 2006

I'll dust my Danish bookcases and Tivo Gus Hansen playing poker.
dusted
response 4 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 1 19:56 UTC 2006

Go denmark !! :D
albaugh
response 5 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 1 21:04 UTC 2006

Maybe this will help:

http://ussmokelesstobacco.com/content.cfm?id=48
twenex
response 6 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 1 23:18 UTC 2006

This response has been erased.

twenex
response 7 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 1 23:19 UTC 2006

Muslim baiting. Pathetic.
tod
response 8 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 1 23:32 UTC 2006

Fer the people of Iran...I got a messidge fer ya...
We hope ta..uh..someday be friends er sumpthin..

Interpretation:
I'm going to punch you.  Its going to hurt. I'm a stupid bully.
scholar
response 9 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 1 23:46 UTC 2006

BYE FAXE TEN>
sholmes
response 10 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 2 02:11 UTC 2006

danish butter cookies are awesome !
fitz
response 11 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 3 17:40 UTC 2006

Waiting a day gave the Islamic clerics to issue further sanctions against just
about the entire EU now.

Leyden cheese:  $8.49/lb at Meijer.  It will henceforth be known as
"free-speech cheese".
mcnally
response 12 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 3 18:11 UTC 2006

 Praise Allah, it is nice to have someone else acting like total idiots on
 the world stage, eclipsing our government, if only for a moment..
khamsun
response 13 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 4 04:13 UTC 2006

"acting like total idiots"

yep.It all started about nothing.And a handful of extremist muslim
priests got to turn masses of naive muslims into political hatred of the
"west".
Muslims often believe their faith forbids any image of the Prophet and
consider the cartoons as blasphemous.Ok.But they have to understand that
the rule apply if you are muslim only.There's no reason for an
atheist/agnostic to follow the rules.Pictural humor around christian
symbolism for instance is an old and accepted tradition in Yurop.
Seen the "Life of Brian" by the Monty Python?
The day one could watch a similar "Life of Mo" movie will be a great
day.
mcnally
response 14 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 4 05:22 UTC 2006

 One claim I've read, though I haven't been able to verify its accuracy,
 is that a Denmark-based Islamic cleric, looking to capitalize on what
 was looking like being a fairly short-lived furor, decided to spice things
 up by adding several cartoons that weren't part of the 12 originally
 published by the Jyllands-Posten.  Of the added cartoons, according to
 the article I read, one depicted the Prophet as a pedophile, one showed
 him with the snout of a pig, and the third showed a muslim figure being
 raped by a dog -- three particularly offensive characterizations to Muslims..
 Of course such cartoons were never published by the Danish newspaper that
 started the furor.  It's likely that parties on both sides are interested
 in seeing the furor continue so we can probably expect more shenanigans.

khamsun
response 15 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 4 07:05 UTC 2006

Re #14:

yes, that's it all.You got to read correct reports.Worth to detail just
a little bit the process of disinformation.And sorry for my poor
english.

The cartoons were first published end september 2005, and gave ground to
discussions on the danish (mainly) blogosphere and web in october 2005,
and the topic vanished like other similars in the past.For instance an
older problematic cartoon involving a cynical view of Mo, nov. 2002 in a
french paper:
http://mysterier.org/politikk/cabu_miss_sac_patates.html

This time what happened is that a danish muslim group of imams.This one:
http://www.wakf.com/ (Det islamiske trossamfund), which connection with
the talibano-wahabist branch or similar is probable, made up an
"information brochure" they brought with them in a tour to Egypt to
"inform" muslim believers about an "insulting action" from the danish
governement.
They told in the mid-east that Danmark was orchestrating an action again
snt Islam and that the governement was about to sponsor a sequel of the
Theo Van Gogh movie "Submission".

--> 1st lie: no sequel of the movie is going to be done in Danmark, it's
just that the co-author of the Van Gogh movie, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, payed a
visit to Kopenhavn to get a price.
--> 2nd lie: danish governement has nothing to do with the decision of
the Jyllands-Posten to publish the cartoons.

The "information" brochure, as you've learnt, includes the
Jyllands-Posten pictures, PLUS the three you mention (snout of a pig,
dog fucked believer, pedophile Mo).The brochure was made available first
to a danish paper (ekstrabladet.dk) by an egyptian fellow who read it in
Egypt.
Here's a copy of it:
http://mysterier.org/politikk/ekstrabladet/hefte/
the offensive ones are the #38,39,40.Fabricated by the imams themselves
probably, because when asked about the author they answered just that
they didn't know but got them in an email...(pff).
Nevertheless one of the fabricated picture was shown by an imam on a BBC
World video transmission...
Then, if you look at the other pages of the brochure, you'll see too a
mad interpretation of DaVinci's Joconde (!!)...
All put under the guilt of Jyllands-Posten.
Hence:

--> 3rd lie: the insulting pictures aren't the ones of Jyllands-Posten

So, after october 2005 everybody could believe the debates in Danmark
and Europe about free speech and religious respect/tolerance were over
like the many others in the past, which morevover at first didn't
involve islam but christianism (and for instance the "Life of Brian"
affair long time ago).
But in the meanwhile a propaganda machine was slowly at work in the
Mid-East by  a small team of radical imams and now everybody can see the
mediatic bomb exploding.
And it's no longer possible to explain the real stuff and try to educate
 muslim crowds.
mcnally
response 16 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 4 09:25 UTC 2006

 I think there are some fascinating angles to this story.

 One thing that intrigues me is that the idea that hardcore Muslim clerics
 are fabricating cartoons that defame the Prophet..  in order to prove to
 their followers that Europeans have no respect for Muslims because they
 defame the Prophet.  It seems like a situation with serious backlash
 potential if you ask me -- pretty easy to get caught at that sort of thing
 and highly unforgivable to all parties involved -- but if we're to believe
 the version of events as we know it it would appear that someone thought
 it worth the risk.

 The part that I find *really* interesting, though, is how the reaction to
 something like this works in the Muslim nations of the world and what it
 reveals about the conception of freedom of the press (or lack thereof) in
 other parts of the world.  Governments of primarily Muslim nations are
 lodging serious diplomatic complaints against the Danish government --
 requring that their ambassadors demand an explanation as to why the paper
 was allowed to publish something so awful and why the paper hasn't been
 shut down since.  Most westerners at this point throw up their hands and
 think to themselves:  "What the f*ck?  Why are they asking the Danish
 government why a newspaper published something?  What does the government
 have to do with it?"

 It's inconceivable in North America and in the nations of Western Europe
 that anyone would expect the government to step in and prevent a paper
 from publishing something like this.  But it's equally inconceivable in
 most of the Islamic world that the government would not.  Newspapers in
 throughout most of the countries we're talking about are routinely shut
 down and editors and journalists threatened with imprisonment or violence
 over minor political criticisms.  Something as outrageous as this was to
 public sensibilities in those countries would never even be attempted and
 if it was it would be quickly and severely punished.  It's surprisingly
 hard for either side to see the other sides' point of view because each
 rests firmly on fundamentally different ideas about the notion of the
 role of the press in society..

marcvh
response 17 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 4 16:04 UTC 2006

Sounds about right.  It also bolsters the notion that Islam is,
objectively, the least tolerant major religion.

I have heard Christians say things along these lines; there was
something (might have been the Last Temptation of Christ movie or
something along those lines) where I heard people on talk shows saying
that the government needed to prevent the film from being shown because
it "defames the character of Jesus Christ."  So they exist, but
certainly they're far from being the mainstream beliefs of most
Christians in my experience.
klg
response 18 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 4 18:14 UTC 2006

If I am not mistaken, there were originally 9 cartoons, not 12.
other
response 19 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 4 19:49 UTC 2006

18:  Where's the precedent?
richard
response 20 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 6 18:36 UTC 2006

re #17 islam is the least tolerant religion?  it isn't islam that says if you
don't convert and accept their faith, you are going to hell
./
kingjon
response 21 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 6 18:41 UTC 2006

Re #20: Actually, as far as I can tell that's exactly what Islam says. Of
course, unlike Christianity, it makes no guarantees that you'll go to heaven
even if you *are* a Muslim.

twenex
response 22 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 6 18:41 UTC 2006

I think it probably does, actually.
tod
response 23 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 6 18:41 UTC 2006

re #20
Infidels deserve to get their head chopped off or enslaved is actually the
wording I believe.  Oh, the final option is "forgiveness".  "Option"
marcvh
response 24 of 43: Mark Unseen   Feb 6 18:58 UTC 2006

My measurement of tolerance is based on behavior, not written doctrine.
Most Christian bodies, and individual Christians, no longer condone the
torture of heretics and the like.  There is no non-Muslim equivalent to
Saudi Arabia, a nation where you must declare your religious beliefs to
get a visa and people with the wrong religious beliefs will not be
granted entry.  There is no non-Muslim equivalent of Mecca, a holy city
to which only Muslims are permitted entry by law.  And there are no
recent examples of non-Muslims engaged in widespread violent
demonstrations against random targets because their religious
sensibilities were offended by a newspaper cartoon.
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