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Grex > Agora46 > #228: The world's most powerful diesel engine | |
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gull
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The world's most powerful diesel engine
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Sep 17 13:58 UTC 2003 |
An interesting web page I ran across recently:
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
It talks about the Wartsila-Sulzer RTA96-C, a turbocharged two-stroke
marine diesel made for large container ships. It comes in six through
14 cylinder versions. Here's some specs for the 14-cylinder model:
Total weight: 2300 tons
Total displacement: 25,480 liters
Maximum power: 108,920 hp @ 102 rpm
Maximum torque: 5,608,312 ft-lbs @ 102 rpm
BSFC (max power): 0.278 lb/hp/hr
BSFC (max economy): 0.260 lb/hp/hr
Thermal efficiency is over 50% at maximum economy. Pretty amazing.
The page has some great assembly pictures that really get across just
how huge these engines are. A complete 14-cyl. engine is 89 feet long
and 44 feet tall.
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| 49 responses total. |
scott
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response 1 of 49:
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Sep 17 22:34 UTC 2003 |
The crankshaft picture is pretty neat - it looks like a standard engine
diagram, then I notice the ladder-rungs going down the interior spaces, then
I notice the little tiny guys on top...
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fitz
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response 2 of 49:
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Sep 17 23:02 UTC 2003 |
nice find! I'm forwarding the link to my friends, but how did you find this?
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tsty
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response 3 of 49:
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Sep 18 04:46 UTC 2003 |
grassolean.com is a harder than usual site to read.
try: http://www.montanagreenpower.com/ instead
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gull
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response 4 of 49:
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Sep 18 14:30 UTC 2003 |
Re #2: It was posted on a VW diesel owners' Yahoo group I'm subscribed to.
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rcurl
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response 5 of 49:
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Sep 18 16:47 UTC 2003 |
One of Rudolph Diesel's early engines got 75% thermal efficiency (it is
claimed in the literature). Sulzer built a single-cylinder, two-stroke,
reversible (!), diesel engine with a bore of one meter, which developed
1.47 megawatts, in 1911. (Sulzer was a marine engine developer and
manufacturer. There is a history of diesel engine development at
http://members.shaw.ca/diesel-duck/library/other/prime_movers.htm,
including some pictures of these early big engines
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gull
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response 6 of 49:
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Sep 18 19:50 UTC 2003 |
Reversibility is a feature of most two-stroke diesels. It's pretty easy
to design any two-stroke engine to run in either direction. Two-stroke
marine diesels are often direct-drive and the ship is reversed by
running the engine the other direction.
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gull
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response 7 of 49:
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Sep 18 19:52 UTC 2003 |
Trivia: The little engines that are used on radio-controlled aircraft
are tiny two-stroke diesels.
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gelinas
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response 8 of 49:
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Sep 18 19:56 UTC 2003 |
Oh. Yeah. So they are. That's why the battery is attached to the glowplug
and then removed. Cool. :)
(I had a line-controlled plane in my youth.)
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rcurl
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response 9 of 49:
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Sep 18 20:34 UTC 2003 |
No, they are carburetted two-stroke engines. The air and fuel are mixed
prior to entry into the cylinder. Diesel engines compress only air, and
inject the fuel during expansion. Compressed air intake occurs during the
latter part of the expansion stroke, when it also scavenges the exhaust
out exhaust valves.
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gelinas
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response 10 of 49:
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Sep 18 22:30 UTC 2003 |
Some are, some aren't. Apparently, the one I was thinking of the Cox 0.049
is not a diesel engine. However, there are still a few under 5cc being made.
(http://www.iroquois.free-online.co.uk/engines.htm is a list of engines
reviewed in magazines. Most of the diesels were reviewed in the 1940s and
1950s.)
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sno
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response 11 of 49:
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Sep 18 22:56 UTC 2003 |
How loud can these big engines get? How far away can you feel this thing
starting up?
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rcurl
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response 12 of 49:
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Sep 19 06:33 UTC 2003 |
I doubt they are very noisy. At least there is no explosion in the
cylinders - the fuel burns as it is injected in a smooth flame. Also,
the speed is only ca 150 rpm. You can swing your arm around at that
speeds with no pain. I would think most of the noice would come from
the compressors, both for the air and for the fuel. I bet, however, they
really rumble.
Re #10: I think that what they mean by diesel isn't how a Diesel engine
is defined. It is the smooth fuel injection during the expansion stroke
that is the characteristic of a diesel that was patented. However a
carburetted engine, like model engines, can run if the compression stroke
causes ignition. This is known as "knock", but doesn't matter at that
scale. A glow plug just assists the process with lower compression.
There are lots of dictionary definitions of a diesel engine on the web. For
example, http://dict.die.net/diesel%20engine/.
Do any of those model engines inject the fuel into the cylinder separately
from the air, during the expansion stroke?
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gull
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response 13 of 49:
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Sep 19 14:05 UTC 2003 |
I don't think so; that'd be too complex. I guess if you want to be
picky they're "compression ignition" engines.
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rcurl
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response 14 of 49:
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Sep 19 15:51 UTC 2003 |
I just think we should show some respect for Rudolph Diesel.......
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gull
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response 15 of 49:
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Sep 19 19:34 UTC 2003 |
While we're on the topic, here's a two-stroke, radial *aircraft*
turbodiesel that looks pretty neat: http://www.zoche.de/
The two-stroke offers some nice smoothness and simplicity advantages over a
four-stroke. They're using a pneumatic starting system that sounds pretty
interesting, too. It looks like they have 2-, 4-, and 8-cylinder versions
planned.
Engines like this are rapidly starting to look like the wave of the future
for general aviation in Europe, where avgas is hugely expensive compared to
jet fuel. There are several companies starting to produce aircraft diesels
in various configurations. Besides this one, I've seen pictures of
prototypes for a horizontally-opposed 4-cylinder, four-stroke, aircooled
engine and an inline 4-cylinder, four-stroke, watercooled engine. The
latter is based on an automotive design. Water-cooling is starting to get
some attention in aircraft applications again after being abandoned for
years. (The standard joke was that using a watercooled engine in an
airplane made about as much sense as using an aircooled engine in a
submarine.)
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rcurl
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response 16 of 49:
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Sep 19 22:19 UTC 2003 |
It occurred to me that the use of "diesel" for "compression ignition"
engines also appears in the term "dieseling" for the continued operation
of a carburetted engine if the ignition system fails. I still don't think,
however, that Diesel himself ever had anything to do with carburetted
"compression ignition" engines.
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gull
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response 17 of 49:
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Sep 19 22:29 UTC 2003 |
Still, Diesel should consider himself lucky. No one ever refers to the
regular type of spark-ignition engine as an "Otto engine".
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rcurl
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response 18 of 49:
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Sep 19 22:32 UTC 2003 |
And stations would then sell auto otto.
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russ
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response 19 of 49:
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Sep 20 04:12 UTC 2003 |
Re #5: I doubt that very much, as the entropy created by combustion
alone would limit efficiency to less than that.
Re #6: Great page. What the heck do they use to *crank* that thing?
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rcurl
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response 20 of 49:
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Sep 20 05:23 UTC 2003 |
The reported efficiency was *thermal* efficiency, not free energy efficiency.
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russ
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response 21 of 49:
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Sep 20 14:27 UTC 2003 |
Re #12: No, "knock" is the ignition of the fuel-air charge
from overtemperature before the flame front reaches it. This
happens more or less all at once, and causes a shock wave.
Knock causes large acoustic waves inside the cylinder, which
disturb the stagnation layer near surfaces and transfers a lot
more heat to them than they're designed for. Sustained heavy
knock tends to be accompanied by things melting or otherwise
being destroyed.
"Dieselling" in a carbureted car after the ignition is turned
off is actually hot-spot ignition. Hot-spots (heated tubes,
glow plugs) predate both spark and compression ignition IIRC.
This means that model airplane engines share kinship with the
earliest, most primitive internal combustion engines.
Re #15: Zoche doesn't appear to have anything flying. For a
product closer to reality, try http://www.deltahawkengines.com
Re #17: Depends if you're in the technical end of the industry
or not. Nomenclature matters when you're talking odd cycles;
Otto-Atkinson, anyone?
Re #0, I'm curious about the lack of modern technical refinements
in that engine. For instance, the pistons are oil-cooled. Why
cool them, when modern ceramic materials could reduce or eliminate
the need for cooling? The heat not lost to the head and piston
would help drive expansion, but much of it would come out in the
exhaust. This means that there would be a considerable excess
of power available from the turbocharger, and that excess could
be tapped to push the crankshaft harder.
If you can get 50% efficiency from the diesel section, and another
25% from the gas turbine (not unusual IIRC), that's 62.5%. Probably
not an insignificant savings if you can get it, so why not?
Last, the engine produces 4.27 horsepower per liter. If my SHO did
as well, its 3.2 liters would muster 13.7 horses. I'm impressed. ;-)
(Actually, I am. At 102 RPM it is producing 1876 joules/liter/rev.
Assuming 210 horsepower at 7000 RPM, my SHO only yields 420 J/l/rev.)
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russ
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response 22 of 49:
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Sep 21 15:08 UTC 2003 |
Re #20: Rane, you ought to know that entropy created in a cycle
has to be removed, and it comes out as unavailability of some
kind. Entropy created in the combustion process has to exit the
engine as what, if not waste heat?
Rudolph Diesel's original engine may have achieved 75% of its
theoretical maximum, but 75% net is impossible in a combustion
engine as I understand it. If his engine did so well, why are
our medium-speed engines getting only about 40% thermal
efficiency when our technology is so much better? The best
modern equivalent to Diesel's first engine is the cogenerator
at the University of Alaska at Fairbanks, which is only
betting on 41% efficiency in their coal-fueled engine:
http://www.lanl.gov/projects/cctc/factsheets/disel/ccddemo.html
After reflection, I notice that the power of this engine is only
about 80 megawatts. The single gas-turbine at the Wabash River
powerplant in Terre Haute (IN) is 192 megawatts, and is probably
a small fraction of the size even when the regenerators are
included. Unless the diesel is a lot cheaper for its output or
gets substantially better fuel economy than a turbine, I'll bet
it's vulnerable. Heck, replacing a 2300 ton engine with a 100
ton engine would allow for 2200 more tons of cargo.
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drew
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response 23 of 49:
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Sep 22 06:32 UTC 2003 |
Re #22:
The theoretical maximum efficiency for an Otto cycle engine is
Nth = 1 - r^( 1 - k ).
For any k > 1, including air (k == 1.4), as r increases without bounds,
Nth approaches 1. So an engine can theoretically have any efficiency
that is less than 100%. 75% thermal efficiency would require a compression
ratio of approximately 32 to 1. Normal diesel engines are typically
around 16 to 1, and a bit higher.
A 32:1 engine sounds plausible. It would be necessary to cut in half the
top-dead-center head clearance volume, increase the wall thickness and|or
the material strength by a factor of 2.639 (2^1.4), and also increase
the injector operating pressure by a factor of 2.639. The compression
temperature ratio would also increase, by a factor of 1.392 (2^0.4).
There is, however, little point to it, since this would more than double the
mass of the engine per cylinder displacement, and a 16:1 compression ratio
already affords a theoretical maximum of 67% (89% of the efficiency of the
32:1 engine).
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dah
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response 24 of 49:
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Sep 22 21:53 UTC 2003 |
Calm down.
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