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Weapons of Mass Destruction -- The Theatrical Release Mark Unseen   Aug 1 04:06 UTC 2003

I was just listening to the radio talk about elections and Iraq and WMD, 
and suddenly I realized how Karl Rove plans to win the 2004 presidential 
election for his protege, GW Bush.

After an extended period of apparently failing to discover all those WMDs 
Bush assured us were really there, his poll number really don't seem to 
have suffered very much.  Taking into account this fact, combined with 
the long campaign season we're soon going to enter, it seems to me that 
the most effective way for Bush to counter strong Democratic claims of 
failures in Iraq -- especially claims of the absolute fallacy of Iraqi 
WMD which some Dems seem wont to make -- would be to allow those claims 
to build up momentum to the point at which they form a significantly 
large part of the Democratic campain rhetoric, and then, suddenly, to 
"find" the claimed proof of WMD just when the timing will have the 
greatest effect in disarming that rhetoric.

In other words, if any hard evidence of WMD is found between now and the 
optimal time close to the election, so long as the poll numbers don't 
drop too low, it would be a brilliant stroke of political mastery to keep 
it under wraps until it is most damaging to the Democratic presidential 
campaign of whomever wins the primary.

I'm sure that if WMD turn up in Iraq within a month or two of the 
election next year, pundits will be raging, left and right.  On the 
right, that it was there all along and the windbag Dems were just too 
dumb to know it, and on the left, that the whole thing was orchestrated 
for maximum electoral impact.

If it happens, remember:  You heard it here first!
49 responses total.
jaklumen
response 1 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 1 07:18 UTC 2003

I dunno.  Part of me wants to see a Dem get a fighting chance in the 
race in 2004.  I don't particularly want to see GW get re-elected.

Iraq and WMD is old news to me.
jor
response 2 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 1 07:19 UTC 2003


        Considering  how easy it would be  to fabricate
        or manufacture some evidence of wmd,  this would
        explain why that hasn't happened already.

jmsaul
response 3 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 1 12:43 UTC 2003

Sure would.  Hopefully the Democratic candidates will figure it out too.
spectrum
response 4 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 1 13:03 UTC 2003

I'm sick of liberal whining about WMD. So is the rest of America. Only
far-left liberals with thier obsessive agenda really talk about it.
bru
response 5 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 1 13:32 UTC 2003

there is no way to hide the introduction of WMD from the US into Iraq.  Do
you know how many people would have to be involved, and you think everyone
of them wants to rig an election?
gelinas
response 6 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 1 13:41 UTC 2003

(People knew about the Iran-Contra arms sales, too, but they didn't talk
about it.  It's -easy- to keep a secret; just classify it.)
other
response 7 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 1 13:56 UTC 2003

I wasn't even suggesting that the evidence would be fabricated, though I 
wouldn't rule it out.  Merely that its "discovery" would be timed for 
political effect.

Given the administration's established pattern of managing events, this 
isn't even a logical stretch.
janc
response 8 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 1 14:23 UTC 2003

Last think I heard GW say on this was that he expected that evidence would
be forthcoming for what he knew all along:  "Iraq had a weapons program."

Um, hello, we didn't go to war because Iraq had a weapons program.  Of course
Iraq had a weapons program.  Everyone has a weapons program.  The claim made
was that Iraq was an imminent threat to the US.  That's going to be a wee bit
harder to prove.
jor
response 9 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 1 15:23 UTC 2003

        May I retract "fabricate or manufacture",
        because it would be easier to have simply claimed
        we found materials, labs, documentation, and weapons 
        all over the place. Why did we not do so?
        To manufacture and fabricate a managable
        controversy?

jep
response 10 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 1 15:41 UTC 2003

If the US was going to plant evidence of WMD, the time to do it would 
have been right as we were entering Baghdad.  There was a lot of 
confusion going on then, and the military had pretty tight and 
unsupervised control of a lot of Iraq.

I don't think it'd be so easy now.

I don't think the president is withholding evidence of WMD.  His 
credibility has taken big hits in recent weeks.  He needs the 
announcement of a discovery *now*, which is why we've had announcements 
over the last couple of days that a discovery is imminent.

If there isn't a discovery of some very significant WMD (some nuclear 
weapons, or a big stockpile of chemical and/or biological weapons), 
then the president is in a lot of trouble for the 2004 election.  This 
isn't swapping some arms for hostages, or drugs for arms, or whatever.  
That's an "oops", comparatively.  If the president invaded another 
country on an incorrect basis, it's a big deal, and I think people will 
treat it as a big deal.  
rcurl
response 11 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 1 16:33 UTC 2003

Re #4: sure - belittle Bush's lies because they indict your leader. We
hear a lot of those attempts to divert public attention from the lies and
deceit. 
klg
response 12 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 1 16:38 UTC 2003

QED
tod
response 13 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 1 18:06 UTC 2003

This response has been erased.

sj2
response 14 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 1 20:30 UTC 2003

This response has been erased.

sj2
response 15 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 1 20:31 UTC 2003

I don't think Iraq is going to weigh big on the voters' minds. 
Domestic issues would matter more. Iraq issue's impact on presidency is 
just media hype more like the SCO vs Linux thing.

russ
response 16 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 01:29 UTC 2003

Re #5:  Are you kidding, Bruce?  It would be *trivial* to introduce
WMD into Iraq along with the other military and relief supplies going
there.  Do you think our spooks have no idea how to *smuggle* things?
Do you really think that more than a few people would have to know
what was in the packages?

That said, making the evidence convincing would be a whole lot harder.
Laboratories can pick out very fine differences between products, and
US-manufactured VX can probably be identified as such.  An Iraqi weapon
would come with manufacturing and storage facilities somewhere; lack
of those would be very suspicious.  It would take more than just one
smuggled weapon or batch of agent to convincingly frame Iraq.
slestak
response 17 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 19:45 UTC 2003

Unfortunately, whether or not any evidence for a weapons program in Iraq is
truly discovered or fabricated, "real news" either way is outside of the
acceptable framework for corporate news media reporting. The US media is
incapable of telling the public the truth about anything other than fashion
or food. (Well, maybe not even fashion or food on second thought.) Both
Liberal as well as Conservative seats of power manipulate the media on a daily
basis. The White House blames the CIA for false information, the CIA accepts
responsibility---->blame goes back to the White House<----->the CIA is
essentially a part of the White House. Fingers point in a circle to defer
responsibility as long as possible. George HW Bush has had both direct as well
as indirect influence whithin the CIA since the early 1970's. Since leaving
as director of the CIA in 1977 his level of "plausible deniability" has
allowed him to conduct personal business using CIA resources at will. Serving
as VP and then President follows suit. He's a business man, not a crusader
for freedom. His boys are just pawns in the global crap game he's been playing
since he left college. Based upon his actions thusfar, he appears to operate
beyond any law anywhere and his sons have been taught to work the same way.
Basic human nature. The illusion of control fuels the illusion of control.
Fair and honest US presidential elections are a myth.
sj2
response 18 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 20:34 UTC 2003

I wouldn't goto the extent of saying that elections in any of the large 
democracies are rigged but the problem is lack of choice. Politicians 
nowhere as good ennough to be elected. And all care about only money 
for themselves.

Its surprising to see that people in the US can't see through GWB's 
designs despite the large amount of evidence out there.
slestak
response 19 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 22:55 UTC 2003

I agree that elections are not necessarily rigged. I do believe that choice
is effectively eliminated by misinformation and our institutionalized
two-party system. Although, the lack of clear investigation and follow up on
the indiscrepancies during the Florida polls during our last presidential
election are troubling. Our standards have been lowered even further in
regards to legal, fair elections. The fact that Jeb Bush runs Florida is an
odd coincidence in regards to several current events.
other
response 20 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 2 23:00 UTC 2003

It's not that most people here *can't* see, it's merely that they choose 
not to see.  People tend to discount any "evidence" which comes from a 
source they don't already accept as legitimate, and our means of 
information distribution have proven themselves so flawed, so repeatedly, 
that now people are just believing whatever sources they want to unless 
they're motivated enough to seek out legitimate unbiased information 
(which is getting harder and harder to do).
jep
response 21 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 3 02:47 UTC 2003

A lot of people can "see through" George Bush.  They can "see through" 
his designs not to make the political choices they favor, and in 
support of their positions and opposition to Bush, they can "see" he's 
doing really awful things.

They can "see" all of this, regardless of any decisions or choices he 
actually makes.

Pretty much everyone who can't "see through" Bush could "see through" 
Clinton when he was the president.  Those people could have "seen 
through" Al Gore, had he won the last election.  It goes both ways, of 
course.

Our vision is considerably influenced by who we voted for and who it 
is we are "seeing through".  We believe what we want to believe for 
the most part.  We've all got marvelous eyesight for seeing through 
anyone we don't want to believe.
twenex
response 22 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 3 13:28 UTC 2003

Re 4: So you're sick of bleeding heart liberals, eh? I'll take that as a
compliment. We must be doing *something* right.
janc
response 23 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 3 16:11 UTC 2003

I agree with JEP to the extent that I don't think that Bush's supporters
misunderstand him.  What I view as poison injected into the American
bloodstream, they view as a dose of much needed medicine.  It's a values
issue, not a facts issue, for the most part.
slestak
response 24 of 49: Mark Unseen   Aug 3 22:55 UTC 2003

Perhaps medicine in the form of "faith based" decision making. Damn the facts
and the opinions of other informed parties. As long as the US has an enemy
in one form or another this type of politics will continue to grow.
Unfortunately, the US has a brilliant track record for creating enemies both
domestically as well as abroad. Usually just in the nick of time. Remember
public opinion and the beginnings of scandal regarding GW's performance in
office until 9/11..? 
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