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| Author |
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hokshila
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The Old Ways Survive
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Oct 14 07:24 UTC 1996 |
There are many practicing Medicine People still around who do not speak of
politics. They are hard to find but for those who wish to work hard and
show that they honestly desire to live in the old ways, the teachers appear.
They wait until you are ready. There are many things about the old spiritual
ways that can badly screw up your life. As the old people say "The road to
being one who speaks to the spirits is littered with the bodies of many who
have tried." If we as people with western minds truely wish to learn to walk
the Red Road, then we must first go back to basics. As children, we learned
many things that can prevent us from looking at things in a good way, in a
way that will let us walk that road. Life does not move in a straight line.
Life moves in circles, the trees grow in circles, the wind in it's strongest
form moves in circles. The seasons - everything is circles. We're taught to
think in straight lines, which is not a natual way. We may think so, but it
is a cultural symptom of western minds. The reason that so little is found
in the books is because the books are straight lines. Circles and Circles.
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| 61 responses total. |
hokshila
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response 1 of 61:
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Oct 14 07:32 UTC 1996 |
This entry was in response to #57 Native American discussions and should have
been entered as a response. However, since everything happens for a reason
(in this case, my novice experience on this system!) a new entry may invite
new discussion.
Thanks, Johnny
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kami
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response 2 of 61:
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Oct 14 16:50 UTC 1996 |
Thanks for opening this item. I think the discussion can go in two ways;
Native American specific, or looking at closed vs. relatively open traditions,
continuous vs. "neo", etc. My preference is "all of the above".
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raven
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response 3 of 61:
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Dec 17 18:15 UTC 1996 |
I am learning about Native spiritual practice myself and would be
intersted in discussion of the medicene wheel. Basically the medicene
wheel is a circle with four spokes representing the four directions: red
is the east and the begining of visions, yellow is the south and reprents
growth of plants, winged beings, four leggeds, and two leggeds, black is
the west and the realm of the thunder being and represents maturing of
visions, white is the north representing renewal and wisdom of the elders.
The wheel is oriented with white facing up to the north. The four colors
also represent the four nations of the world Red, Anglo, Asian, & African.
The medicene wheel represents the coming together of the people which is
very inportant in this age of fragmentation. This is a basic outline I
would discussion and fleshing out of this outline either here or in
e-mail.
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raven
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response 4 of 61:
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Dec 17 18:16 UTC 1996 |
errr would welcome discussion that is...
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kami
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response 5 of 61:
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Dec 17 18:32 UTC 1996 |
Thanks, Raven. Good to hear from you. I wonder how old is the attribution
of the four directions to the 4 races. I find the animal attributions and
their varieous traits really interesting. Is that specifically Hopi, do you
know? What tradition are you studying? From what source? Hre's a comparison:
the Celts (specifically theIrish, I don't know the others as well) also used a
circle-cross, perticularly as a solar whieel. Being a symbol of balance, I
would think it has healing uses, although the holed-stones were more common for
that. But anyway, one may assign colors to the four directions or provinces
thus: yellow or maybe green in the East, the seat of bounty, or agriculture
and crasftsmanship. White in the south, the seat of song, wisdom, lore. Black
in the West, the direction of magic and the Otherworld, and Red in the North,
the seat of battles. The person standing at the center puts the East before
them. Interesting how similar it is, and yet a few directions are moved
around.
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hokshila
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response 6 of 61:
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Dec 17 19:19 UTC 1996 |
Welcome, raven. I would enjoy sharing the wheel that I have been working with.
I have worked from a variety of traditions and sources, basically arriving
at a wheel that reflects the understandings that I have. I would be willing
to outline the aspects and attributes as well. I find that as a mirror, the
wheel helps me to see where I am in the journey of life.
The oldest attribution of the colors representing the races that I have
come across is the Australian Aboriginees use of these colors. They are the
only race of people in the world that can have blond haired, blue eyed
children as well as brown eyed, black skinned children. They also have the
reflective coating on the back of their eyes to see better at night. There
eyes reflect like animals at night in light. This is another genitically
unique trait. They tell of a story of the five races coming out of dream time.
I believe they have been around for about four hundred thousand years.
At any rate, what were some of your ideas about sharing the medicine
wheel? I like to here them.
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jazz
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response 7 of 61:
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Dec 18 05:46 UTC 1996 |
Sunset, sunrise. Winter, summer. East, west. North, south.
Understanding those things has helped me follow the medicine wheel.
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birdlady
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response 8 of 61:
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Dec 18 15:34 UTC 1996 |
Raven -- have you read any of Sun Bear's books? I think you would enjoy them
immensely, and I believe he has one on Medicine Wheels. I think it's called
"Dreaming with the Wheel", but don't quote me on that.
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raven
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response 9 of 61:
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Dec 18 15:37 UTC 1996 |
The man I am studying with is Apache by blood but most of his
understandings are Iraqois, Mohawk, & Lakota. I will ask which tradation
red in the east comes from when I next speak with him. He has mentioned
that some other tradations have yellow in the east, and blue in the west.
As for the understanding about the four nations that may be relatively
recent (last 20 years????) again I have to ask to be sure.
In terms of sharing the medicene wheel I mean getting discussion like this
started about different tradations and their understandings, personel
understandings, etc. I know there are medicene wheel gatherings as well
but I have not been to one yet.
The info about the Celtic medicene wheel is very interesting to me, he
mentioned that the Celts had an understanding of the medicene wheel but
wasn't very specific about it. Anyway lets keep this discussion going.
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raven
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response 10 of 61:
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Dec 18 15:44 UTC 1996 |
# 8 sliped in No I haven't read any. I would be interested to hear about his
teachings though. For now my teacher says I shouldn't read a lot about
intertations of the wheel, ceremony etc, he says I need to experience many
ceremonies first before I start interpreting & abstracting. His teaching says
that ceremony & the wheel are best understood through the heart and experience.
BTW birdlady don't take this as a brushoff I would like to hear more about what
the wheel means to you.
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kami
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response 11 of 61:
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Dec 20 07:35 UTC 1996 |
Your teacher's right.
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hokshila
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response 12 of 61:
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Dec 20 20:44 UTC 1996 |
RE#10 You decied if your teacher is right. Sometimes the only elder around
is one that speaks to me through the talking leaves. Native Spirituality is
not a cerebral thing, it is the language of the heart.
I use different colors at different times in my wheel. Mainly, that is because
is use them in conjuction with the Na Num Ah, the coming together ceremony,
or the "sweat lodge". Different colors for different intents. However, with
using my personnal wheel, The main attributes are below:
East South West North
---------------------------------------------------------------
Red Yellow Black White personnal
Yellow Red Blue White perification
Yellow Green
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hokshila
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response 13 of 61:
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Dec 20 20:52 UTC 1996 |
More on the wheel.....what happened to the native conf, btw?
I will enter more on the medicine wheel, later, thanks. But first, what
happened to the native conferance?
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kami
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response 14 of 61:
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Dec 22 04:28 UTC 1996 |
re: different colors for different intent-- That's interesting. In Wiccan
training, using the classical 4 element construct as a basis, each element/
direction has a color commonly associated with it, but a range of relevant
colors depending on aspect, and beyond that again, there are colors for
mixtures of elements such as "air of fire" or "air of earth", etc. An
immense rainbow of gradations...
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birdlady
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response 15 of 61:
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Dec 28 21:28 UTC 1996 |
Raven -- In no way did I take that as a brush-off. =) I understand because
I also have a teacher. In his view, if I read something, it's cool, but I
always ask him questions about it and ask him to interpret things. I haven't
read that much on Medicine Wheels, but the subject sounds interesting.
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hokshila
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response 16 of 61:
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Jan 1 12:09 UTC 1997 |
Very interesting and helpful in life I might add.... does any one know what
happened to the native conf?
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raven
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response 17 of 61:
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Jan 2 04:49 UTC 1997 |
Ummm I don't think there was ever a native conf, but it sounds like a cool
idea, you can go propose it in the coop conf. There is a native item in
this conf which I think is # 37 if I remember right.
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raven
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response 18 of 61:
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Jan 2 04:50 UTC 1997 |
Make that item 59.
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font
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response 19 of 61:
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Jan 15 19:44 UTC 1998 |
I too work/ed with raven's teacher, but he and I have not been communciating
lately. I may be looking for a new teacher, hopefully female. it's nothing
personal...it just seems that there are some things I have missed from
working from a male tacher. (i noticed this once when I went to a sweat lodge
hosted by a friend of my teacher, and I was on my moon. he'd never told me
that you wern't supposed to go in when that was happening, as the host herself
told me, and aparently I wasn't even supposed to be at the gathering before
either, but I'd never been told)
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mta
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response 20 of 61:
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Jan 29 22:18 UTC 1998 |
Thre are definite differences in energy and it's good to work with both men and
women. It sounds like it's time for you to work with women, now. But don't
forget that women have blind spots, too. ;)
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font
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response 21 of 61:
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Feb 2 07:14 UTC 1998 |
Re#20...I have a difficult time working with women usualy, so I am rather
egalitarian in noticing blind-spots. :-) x 1/2
(if anything, i been somewhat misogynistic without realising it... will the
ironies ever cease?)
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jazz
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response 22 of 61:
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Feb 21 21:40 UTC 1998 |
I have the same problems working with gay same-genderists as I do
with straight opposite-genderists; namely that they seem to be confusing
their reproductive drive for significance. THey're not fun to be around.
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kami
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response 23 of 61:
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Feb 23 04:34 UTC 1998 |
Jazz, I like the way you framed that; for a lot of folks looking at the trad
wiccan community, they get hung up in the apparant heterosexism, or some folks
wanting to buy into that community make the same mistake. It's not about who
you, as an individual, choose to sleep with, tha'ts your own expression of
"all acts of love and pleasure". But when the core "sacriment" of your
religion is an expression of creation, of first spark and primodial sea, it
sort of takes a seed and a fertile medium, a sperm and an egg, for that to
happen, hence the *appearance* of heterosexism in some wiccan/pagan ritual.
No excuse for prejudice!!! People sleep with people, not genders.
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robh
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response 24 of 61:
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Feb 23 12:37 UTC 1998 |
And some of us don't even sleep with people. >8)
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