response 1 of 33:

May 30 15:57 UTC 1994

AAAARGH!  (that's my "thought" on this matter :})
Seriously, It's hard to get "back to basics" when we don't even agree on what
those basics are.  that's what a lot of religious "wars" are about- each side
arguing that their view is the only right one.  As long as we honour debate,
perhaps as our unifying sense of what makes us different- better- we can 
continue to be tolerant and grow closer to each others views until we do find
out what really is "basic".  Or something.  Now, one interest I have is in
the question of "what makes us different" or "what brings us together"- not
so much particular beliefs but general attitudes and qualities.  What are we
all looking for that we find in so many wonderful ways? etc.

Overintellectualizing?  Of course- think where we come from.  It's hard to 
create religious experience which is ecstatic, immediate, transformative, when
the models most of us came from are sterile, fixed and external.  Part of the
"path" we travel may even be just getting TO the path- learning to trust in
the intense, personal, messy sort of rituals and experiences which are so much
more real than the other kind, but less "safe".  Part of the process of getting
there may indeed involve seeking corroboration from our fellows: through
gatherings, publications, and even through the electronic media.  Since those
of us who use the internet are apt to be fairly highly educated, of course
our attempts to sort out this new reality will look pretty intellectual. For
some that does indeed allow them to keep a distance, for others it intensifies
the level of "reality" in their work.

I don't see how the computer could be used to consolidate power, any more
than anything else could be, among those who are not easy to lead, but then
I'm not very "paranoid"...

response 3 of 33:

May 31 15:23 UTC 1994

Of course we need the element of human contact.  No one ever gets enough hugs!!

Seriously, I don't discount the value of the conversations/ relationships I've
begun via e-mail, but the better they get, the more I want to sit down in a
quiet (ha!) room with each person, or perhaps some combination of them, and
have a quicker-paced discussion, go walking in the woods, show them my book
shelves, etc.  We ARE still basically a gregarious species...

response 5 of 33:

Jun 6 18:30 UTC 1994

Hm, not sure what you mean by a "tough period"- in terms of conservatism in
the main-stream culture or within the pagan community?

response 7 of 33:

Jun 7 03:41 UTC 1994

re: #6- That's all any of us can do.  Sometimes it's tough enough. I'm a 
great believer in each of us having our own "personal magic", the style which
is native to ourselves, irrespective of any teaching or shared system. 
SOmetimes it's rather a challenge to honor that personal way of being, of
perceiving, in the face of one-true-wayism, or of our own desire for
acceptance, for corroboration, for community. Perhaps part of figureing out
what are "the basics" is figuring out the "rules" of our own way(s)- one
person has a close affinity for smith craft, a good feel for steel, makes
all their own tools. Another works best with what is living, trees, the 
natural world, and finds "cold iron" entirely inimical to their magic. To
complicate the process of discovery, we have only the meagerest shared 
language with which to work out and discuss these matters, far too much of
what has been written was under the category of "fantasy", making it hard
to really explore and give credit to, and much of what has been worked out
and written down in easily accessible form belongs to a narrow range of
styles or traditions: what is the person to do, who cannot work easily and
effectively in the presence of cold iron, if most of what they have read is
in the British traditions of Wicca, where an Athame is perhaps the most 
important tooll? If all the covens/groups they come across, worse yet, are
working in more or less that form, they may never find out that there are
alternatives.  the "basics" might seem, to them, to consist of the formal
casting of a circle with a knife, calling of quarters with a sign drawn usning
a knife, etc.  Even if their teachers remind them over and over that the only
*necessary* tool is their will, they are still seeing set forms and tools
over and over- how are they to know that they are suffering from a sort of
interference, an incompatibility problem, rather than mere incompetence?

Hm, I suppose this is slightly oblique to the topic, I'm not sure. Is the
question of learning to recognize one's personal magic a "basic", or should
we be discussing just the matter of "doctrinal differences" within the forms
of pagan worship and what constitutes a significalnt difference vs. a minor
detail of flavour?

response 9 of 33:

Jun 12 16:11 UTC 1994

I'll let kami answer her question, but Jon...are you a Pagan??

response 11 of 33:

Jun 13 19:18 UTC 1994

I didn't want to say it Kami, thanks. I assumed he wasn't Wiccan, or probably o
of any Euro-trad.
What's the controversy with Robh?? IS he going to go into a Ceremonial Rant...
<<Hold on to your hats...>>

response 13 of 33:

Jun 13 21:33 UTC 1994

your right, i'm not wiccan, or of any pagan tradition.  i'm here because
i got sick of the religion .cf, that's all...

response 15 of 33:

Jun 14 20:20 UTC 1994

There is a religion conference here on Grex, but I don't think
I've ever been there.

response 17 of 33:

Jun 16 19:10 UTC 1994

give me that old time religion, give me that old time religion, give me that
old time religion, it's good enough for me!  >8^()

response 19 of 33:

Jun 17 04:21 UTC 1994

fuz- "old time religion" is one of the longest, silliest songs in the standard
Pagan repertory.  It's about all the various pantheons and traditions out
there. It's rather broad humor, I suppose.  Get someone to sing it for you.

response 21 of 33:

Jun 17 15:05 UTC 1994

that's what I started it for.
Any favorites for Solstice?

response 23 of 33:

Jun 19 16:46 UTC 1994

There
There's a lovely one like that for Lughnasadh on Mothertongue's _Firedance_
tape.