mooncat
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response 1 of 8:
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Jan 11 20:39 UTC 2005 |
Theories differ, but let me see if I can shed some light:
1. The Devil (aka Satan) began existence as Lucifer Morningstar- one of
God's beloved Angels. Lucifer, unfortunately, decided to rebel against
God. Therefore he fell, and was condemned to Hell (as it's prime
administrator).
1a. Again differing theories. One has it that the purpose of Satan is
to punish the wrong doers. God gave mankind free will, which includes
the ability to choose to do wrong. A theory I 'like' is that the devil
punishers wrong-doers for a length of time- then once they have been
punished they go to heaven.
2. Since God created Lucifer he's the stronger. Around the European
Medieaval times Satan's power was 'enhanced' by the priests. This has
had many effects and leads up to today where he is thought to be God's
equal in power. God could crush Satan, but it may not suit His
purposes. Who else could 'reign in Hell' as it were? Hell is a
punishment, even for it's administrator- none of the other angels (that
we know of) would deserve scuh a punishment.
3. In theory- the trinity is 3-in-1, and thus all equally divine. I'm a
little skeptical on that score, but the general idea is that they're
all equal and all part of one divinity just separate aspects. That may
be a better way of thinking about it, one whole with three faces. I'm a
little unclear on this one.
Does this help at all?
Glad to see the questions, keep on talking! :) Although, we try to be
nice (some of us) but there are grexers who will take offense at
everything! ;)
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kami
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response 2 of 8:
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Jan 12 04:24 UTC 2005 |
Well, I've never been Christian, but let's see what I can do here.
There's an historical perspective on all this, too.
In the Jewish belief (predicessor of Christianity), there was an angel, loyal
to god, who stood at His left hand. His job was to tempt people (such as Job),
so they could *choose* to be good, and grow stronger through the testing.
The Zoroastrians were perhaps the first to have a dualistic image of deity-
they had a "god of good" and a "god of evil", who competed for followers and
for control of the world.
A lot of the images of the devil come from earlier peoples or episodes; it
may be the Hell as a burning pit is based on Gehena, which is in turn either
the Jewish place of punishment, or the midden heap outside of Jerusalem (or
both?) The devil as having goat's feet may come from Pan- the goat-footed god
of the forest, who brought both abandonment and joy, and "panic" fear. His
followers would have grand, liscentious drunken revels. They were also said
to have torn apart the king when he snuck in to see what they were up to.
As to your question number two; there are some beliefs in which the devil
seems to be stronger- people are inherently evil, the world is falling apart,
etc. So that it's god's task to try and redeem us from the evil and bring us
to a higher reality. The Gnostics believed a variant on that, although for
some of them, our world was actually *created* by the devil, and therefore
is inherently flawed. For most Gnostics, humanity is redeemed by Sophia, the
spirit (more or less feminine) of Wisdom, while the prime creator sits outside
the problem and watches to see the outcome.
However, a much more common belief would the that, in the long run, God is
the more powerful, being without limit and all-encompassing. But in the short
run, there seems to be a very common belief that the Devil is always lurking,
to cause trouble and lead people to his domain, which makes him *seem* more
powerful, or at least more present, than god.
Re; trinity- what Anne said. It's a Mystery; 3 who are 1 who are both separate
and whole. Either that, or God the Father is the Jewish god, perhaps based
on an earlier Sky/Storm god. Jesus would be a later addition, amalgamated
with the earlier like Thor gets added to Odin's family once Odin's Germanic
people had conquered the earlier Norse. I think that also happens in Indian
myth, but I can't remember who came first. Certainly, the Aryan gods and
practices got joined to the Vedic ones. Well, anyway, the "Holy Spirit" might
be a hold over from earlier Goddess worship, or represent the Earth. In modern
imagery, I think it's closer to the Gnostic Sophia. And there has long been
a struggle over the role of Mary; if she's the mother of god, is she a god?
That she's mortal is part of the Mystery-- draws the divine closer to
humanity. But there seems to be a deep need for divine feminine, since the
veneration of Mary has always been so strong.
I was thinking something else about triune gods and goddesses in other
pantheons, but it fell out my other ear. Sorry.
Also, there is a theory that the story of Jesus was established during Roman
times, in a form which was reasonably acceptable and familiar to Romans. The
god who dies, is reborn and taken up to heaven is a lot like the story of
Mithras, for example.
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kami
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response 4 of 8:
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Jan 14 02:59 UTC 2005 |
You ask "if we are ultimately redeemed..." Well, if I understood correctly,
most branches of Christianity believe that only the good folks get a good
afterlife, and the ones who misbehave, *and don't repent*, get to suffer after
death. So the ones who screw up too badly, don't get to go "spoil" heaven.
Other branches of Christianity seem to have believed that people are
predestined for heaven or hell, and that their behavior in this life is more
likely to show than to cause their destination. I don't know if there are any
current sects who hold that belief. It seems pretty counterproductive to me.
Come on folks, aren't there any current or former Christians who can answer
questions about different denominations? I really only know what I've heard
in Anthropology or Sociology classes. <sigh>
Anway, I guess the primary division between Christian denominations is between
the Catholics (and maybe Eastern Orthodox?) who believe that, in the communion
which is their core "mystery", the wine and wafer are *truly* transformed into
the blood and body of their god, so that they become one at a cellular level.
The other, protestant sects, believe that it is a symbolic transformation.
Beyond that, the Catholics have a very formal ritual, very psychologically
effective because of its drama. They also have a complex hierarchy,
culminating in the Pope who is the primary mediator of god's will to the
Catholic people. Their clergy is celibate, to focus their whole energy on
spiritual connectedness. And it is believed that people get closer to heaven
by the good they do in the world, and by confessing their sins and repenting
for them. The protestants came about when the Catholic church has something
of a monopoly of spiritual power in Europe, and had become rather secular and
corrupt. So the protestants were "protesting" the abuses of the Catholic
hierarchy. They began to read the bible themselves, not just have it read and
explained to them. They believed that the only way into heaven was by faith,
so all the donations to the church or helping widows and orphans in the world
would not buy them a seat in heaven. Martin Luther (hence "Lutherans") posted
a list of 95 complaints about the Catholic church. I'm afraid I don't know
what they all were. But the result is that most protestants are more plain
in their dress and in their church services. The Calvinists (don't remember
Mr. Calvin's other name) were really popular in Scotland. A very harsh sect,
I think they might have believed in predestination. They sure didn't much like
dancing or playfulness.
I'm going to stop there, and see if anyone else knows more about some of the
other sects and their beliefs.
there were some differences of opinion large enough to result in wars or the
attentions of the inquisitions. At this modern juncture, that's hard to
believe, but I guess that those in power were afraid of losing it, and those
who distrusted the folks with power wanted to create change, and everyone
thought they had the One Great Truth. <sigh> THey're all wrong about
that...<g>
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