response 1 of 42:

Nov 21 14:18 UTC 1996

I'm in a group, and see nothing wrong with being a solitary.
Next question?  >8)

But seriously, for most of my time as a pagan, I've been a solitary.
I can assure you from experience that being in a bad group is much
worse than being in no group at all.  I consider myself very fortunate
to have found a group that I'm comfortable working with, people who
don't think magic is "visualize happy fluffy glowing bunnies and
eeeeeeevwything will be better" (I've been to more than a few rituals
like that, ick yuck ptui ptui), but aren't too anal-retentive for
me to deal with.

It almost goes without saying that you'll be dealing with a LOT more
energy in a group than as a solitaire, which can be useful.  *If* the
group is one you feel comfortable with, and is doing stuff you want to
do.  If you're not happy with it, then all the energy in the world
really isn't going to do anything for you.  Besides which, if you're
primarily doing ritual work for yourself, then one person's energy
should be enough for just about anything.  (IMHO)

If nothing else, void, I do sympathize with you for one non-magical
reason: that sounds like exactly the same "why aren't you married"
bullshit that I have to put up with on a regular basis.  And I know
how sick of that I feel.  >8)

response 3 of 42:

Nov 21 22:44 UTC 1996

so move to rejkjavik =}
i've been in two groups and on the fringes of a few others... boht groups got
too large for my tastes, and the energy got too disparate.  i'm still in one
of those groups as an administrator only; the magick has gotten so far from
where i'm comfortable with, and the group is too large for me to feel like
i can make any contribution anymore.

OTOH, i can't do the solitary thing, i just don't have the discipline or
self-confidence yet, and i doubt i ever will with the way i tend to approach
groups and teachers... 

which means, either way, i'm in a religious crisis right now ={ i think i'd
prefer to work solitary (or with my sweethearts... the three of us have done
one ritual together so far, and it went fiarly well all things considered).
*shrug*

*passingly wishes Grex had an anon feature, because he neeeded to say the
above, but he fears he's going to alienate a reader or two of this
conference...*

response 5 of 42:

Nov 22 00:10 UTC 1996

Hum... I can't say I really know. On my own, any kinda of anything I do is
in my head. Forget words, forget candles, forget all that. Just sub-vocalized.
I suppose I have no experience with a group I'm actually part of. I mean, the
only group that ever would have excepted me on my terms practically worships
cthulu,
and even if they are my good friend, I'm sure they'll outgrow it.

response 7 of 42:

Nov 22 03:16 UTC 1996

One of the wisest priestesses I know has pointed out that "we are all
solitaries"-- even if most of your work is with a group, you've got to be
doing a certain amount of private meditation and ritual in order to keep
centered and growing, and strengthen your own relationship with the gods
you look to.  Now, for me, I tend to get lazy.  On my own, as Jenna said,
I'm not much inclined to formal structures; I'll have a sense that the night
is calling, look around for anything that wants to go with me, walk in the
direction that feels right, pick up or leave what seems called for, say or
do anything which fits the pattern (sing, dance, hum, create a poem, whatever-
only the night is listening...), and come home when it feels "done".  Or
even less formal.  But there are so many times when I ignore that call, when
I come up with pointless excuses to avoid doing what, really, is something
which gives great joy.  So I've been disciplining myself to do two simple
rituals before bed; lighting a candle for Brigid and taking out the compost
as a way of talking to the "fairies at the bottom of the garden".  Now, the
other side of all this is that I'm pretty gregarious.  I *like* having a
group, a family, a community, and tend to build them when I can.  As Rob
pointed out, there's more energy that way.  Also more support.  And it's
harder to blow off doing rituals.  And the rituals can be more varied with
more people's input.  Sometimes groups can be limiting, if they have to
meet the needs of everyone or run on concensus or by Priestess' decree, or
whatever.  At times, having the brakes put on is a good thing- saves paranoia
and grandiosity.  At other times, the group all gets caught up in mass
hysteria and "witch wars" and self destructs.  That sucks.  A strong group
sees it coming and works together, and one person alone *can* get into a
seige mentality with no one to yank them back from it.  For me, one of the
most important functions of a group, though, is teaching.  That requires
there to be someone whom everyone respects, or an agreement to seek outside
the group for qualified instruction.  I've run into too many solitaries, and
even groups lately, whose main source of information was "two books put
out by Llewellyn"--ok, that's a slight exaggeration, but the point is that
the notion of coven structure implies hiving off from some established group,
with the founder(s) having been trained and initiated by that tradition and
given continuing guidance.  That means that people are less likely to decide
that eating green cheese is the ideal form of lunar ritual or that they have
the *only* papal dispensation to practice magic, or whatever, and if they
really get their knickers in a twist, someone can holler up the line for a
reality check.  And no, it's not perfect...  But the result is less "religion
as role playing", less "leader?  we don't need no stinkin' leaders?", less
"chinese resterant religion", and waaay less sense of isolation.  Yeah, I'm
a bit biased. and a *lot* "East Coast".  Oh well.

response 9 of 42:

Nov 22 23:45 UTC 1996

I'm not one for maghic either, and regarding Kami...
then is what we do by ourselves any different than what any one else does?
Before I ever cared about any of this, i still had urges to go walk with this
or that.
Is it really religion, or just nature? Sometimes I wonder and I dont bother
to think. I don't think it's something odd, just something labeled differently
by many people.
Personally, I don't cast spells, not rhe way some of my more vocal
acquantiancs
would. I guess when I need something and I want something soimportantly,
(I am having a real hard time keeping these lines togethr ;})
ok. I guess what I meanto say, is I've never really believed in magic
as a manipulable thing by simple cermony. In fact, thsoe things always make
me shiver. The way I've always thought about it, the only time your desires
or needs ever changed the course of the world was when your mind and heart
were ust screaming out loud and echoing off the walls of your skull. Those
are usually the times people are in too much anguish, too much trouble,
to consciously do anything. I suppose I mostly feel that way about holidays
too.
I enjoy celebrating, but it's all pyuscholiogical. I know when srping really
comes.
iot realy comes the day I notice the trees budding and go outside to pick up
brown pine cones because that's what I've done sicne I was 4. (of my own
volation)
i know when other people's "energies" are up because of the night because
I look out and I see an irresistable night that makes me want to walk.
It's always been smore like being in orbit than being a spaceship.
(sorry for the lnegth)

response 11 of 42:

Nov 23 14:37 UTC 1996

   hmmm. lotsa stuff in here i want to answer, but i'm not going to sort it
all out by response number. ;)

   i developed my own methods (or tradition, or whatever you want to call it)
via lots of reading, lots of patient weeding out of llewelyn-sponsored
gibberish, and instruction from a couple other solitaries i met. what i
practice is mostly a mix of taoist, celtic, and native american practices with
some other bits here and there.

   there are about a dozen or so other solitaries i know in the ann arbor-ypsi
area, and when one of us wants/needs more than one person involved in a ritual
or wants advice on how to achieve a particular goal, we're pretty comfortable
calling on each other. it could be said that we're a loose collective of
solitaries, but even that implies more structure than is really there.

   all the groups i was ever involved in fell prey to ego battles or an
insistence on adopting some kind of pagan dogma. if i wanted hierarchy and
to-the-letter ceremony, i'd rejoin the roman catholic church. ritual is
certainly important, but there's a lot of satisfaction in (to use kami's
example) focusing intent on finding a parking place and listening to the
universe.

   there's more i wanted to say, but fourteen hours in a cab last night seems
to have fried my brain somewhat. i can't remember what it was. 

response 13 of 42:

Nov 26 00:15 UTC 1996

Oh, I never said aything about holiday ritauls...
i quite like them. they're in celebration fo what IS happening as opposed to
what we want to happen. And my religion at least is a religion of nature.
But some things, well say, muscle contractins, I couldn't really
claim them to be unique to my religion, seeing as many other people have
tem all the time (all other people) without calling ti religious, though it
is amazing. I believe in a sixth sense through which anothermode
of communication like speach or writing ccan be tranferred.
I don't believe that a person who's cherry and happy can come up to me
one morning, put their hand on my forhead and GIVE me some of their excess
energy
and IF they try, I will get mad. You can cheer me up, maybe. You can
give me some caffine, maybe, you can make me get up and do something maybe,
but you
can't tranfer your alterness to me.
   I also don't believe that a spell you cast can do anything but communicate
your need/desire to
another person/god(ess)<es>. Whether a sick person chooses to listen to
you telling them to get better and try harder, is thier buisness. You can't
mess with their body, you can't chage physcial things
(a conversation with valerie solidified my opinion on this)

response 15 of 42:

Dec 2 02:37 UTC 1996

For this point in my life, I am a solitary, because I think, for now, it is
right for me.  (This is not to mention a certian amount ofgeographic
isolation; since coming to vandy, I've met one person who is pagan and one
atheist... the rest are atleast vaugely christian.)  There are somethings
I need to work out in my personal ways of dealing with god/esses before I try
to function as a member of a group.  Someday, it may be (for lack of a better
word) right for me to work in a group; I'll tell you when I get there.

response 17 of 42:

Dec 4 06:30 UTC 1996

Not too long.  What is your hesitation about the prospective student- is it
in you or in her, do you think?
Wish I knew Lhianna better.
3rd long distance?  Without a permanent working partner? (other than Keman-
she's not quite where you are yet, now, is she?)  Tough one.  Best of luck.
Take your time.

Faile, you've got a good perspective; getting to know your own relationship
with the gods first.  Not everyone can do it that way.  It certainly has 
merit.  And people will give you shit, but hey!--you know who it's worth
listening to; Themselves.

response 19 of 42:

Dec 7 04:46 UTC 1996

I can see where you wouldn't want trouble with the student's husband.  My
sense is that you can give her pointers and bits of instruction, suggestions
for books and even time to hang out with your own book  shelves over tea,
without taking her on as a formal student- that sort of responsibility you
don't need.  More, I suspect that she's going to end up losing the husband
or leaving the magical exploration, since they are not reconcileable.  If 
you become her excuse for leaving, you become the replacement.  Bad idea. If
he knows or thinks you are the reason she leaves, especially if he should
have *any* notion of your sexuality, you'd be in serious danger.  And if she
decides to go back to him, you become a major target for "leading her astray".
She has a right to find her way to the gods, and you can help her to that,
encourage her to trust herself, etc. without biting off more than you need.

Gee, if you're in Ohio for the on-site part of your 3rd degree work, think you
can make some time to come over this way? ;)  Does Lhianna have e-mail? It
might be that she can set you up for some of the meditation/ritual work over
the phone or by e-mail, at least to lay the foundation for what will need
to be done there.

I don't think I should get into the issue of whether one needs a partner to
do 3rd degree work, and whether that's a Gardnerian-oid thing, I'm likely
to rant without sufficient base.  If it's not oath-bound or whatever, I'd
love to hear your tradition's steps to each degree, what is required for (or
what constitutes) a 3rd Degree, and why you *don't* need a partner at that
point.  Just broadening my range of knowledge.
Hugs.

response 21 of 42:

Dec 9 03:32 UTC 1996

Seems to me you've got about 3 choices here; keep looking and see if there
>*is* anyone who's doing more-or-less what fits for you, learn the shared
>language you're talking about and figure that it'll do for a translation-
>language--that it's closer than what you started with, or learn enough about
>the mechanics and theory of ritual construction that you can craft forms
>that *do* work for you from scratch--then share them with the rest of us.  One
>other possiblility; you may not have run into well enough educated or
>articulate enough pagan-folks to get any sense of the underlying mysteries
behind the rituals you've seen, or the cosmology, etc. behind the beliefs
you've heard discussed. 

response 23 of 42:

Dec 9 09:10 UTC 1996

Eeek!  <bjorn runs from the evil number 3 in abstract terror!>