Democratic Cooperative Socialist Party

Feb 3 07:53 UTC 1995

What better time than the day after an early spring ground hog day to decide
and announce the formation of a new political party, The Cooperative Socialist
Party.
"Whoa!" you say, "socialism in America, no way."
Relax, this will not be a party of under educated unionists trying to 
dictate their program on your back.

response 2 of 89:

Feb 3 08:45 UTC 1995

Over-educated aristocrats trying to dictate their program on our back?

response 4 of 89:

Feb 3 16:39 UTC 1995

The first focus of the Coop Socialists is to remove the barriers to, and 
create tools for, the organization of co-ops and ESOPs (Employee Stock 
Ownership Programs).  These organizations are democratic by definition.
Where do you get this "aristocrat" business, ajax?  Co-ops are strictly
voluntary and non-coercive as opposed to old style (and especially 
"prolitarian oriented") socialism, which did try to push a program down
peoples throats.  This is why I chose the term "cooperative."  Co-ops build
self responsibility and taking care of business rather than "demand it of the
government" mentality.  There is no "dictation of a program"  on anyone's
back in my schemes.  I should certainly hope that you have cleaned that from
my writings on energy saving and environmental responsibility and public 
transportation use by now.  Back to "aristocrat."  Perhaps I am a '"natural
aristocrat <Bill says, modestly>.  I feel that I am talented, conscientious,
ethical, and hard working.  What's wrong with that?  Are you a "mean middle"
no-mind mediocrocrat," the type of person that makes the majority in 
American politics today?

response 6 of 89:

Feb 4 00:40 UTC 1995

First of all, banks are very reluctant to loan money to co-ops.  That doesn't
mean that I want to create a federal mandate or set-aside for bank loans to
co-ops.  What I would like is for credit unions, which are co-op thrift 
institutions, to be legally allowed to make business loans to other co-ops.
As it stands now, to protect banks turf of making business loans, credit 
unions are barred from making any kind of business loan, even to other co-ops.
The net result is that credit unions loan out most of their funds to individual
-s for car loans.  Aside from removing barriers, I would have the government
act as a clearing house and facilitator for co-ops and their formation.  I'm
sure the US Dept. of Agriculture's Cooperative Extension Service does this for
farmers.  I want an Urban Cooperative Extension Service.  Other things:
Enabling legislation to allow cities, states, transit authorities, housing
authorities, etc. to be part owner/members of various kinds of co-ops;
Federal loan guarantees for bank loans to co-ops; well, that's enough for now.
I'll think of some more later and post them.

response 8 of 89:

Feb 4 08:44 UTC 1995

        Allowing credit unions to loan to co-ops sounds ok as far as it goes,
        but does that really require a political party esp one with the loaded
        name socialist in it?  If you want to be *politicaly* smart call it
        progressive "  "
(fill in the blank).

response 10 of 89:

Feb 4 10:58 UTC 1995

My previous response should have referenced #7, and I want to further address
Rogue's concerns:  As far as creating a liability for the government, and
thus ultimately the taxpayers by guaranteeing bank loans to co-ops, there are
ways to gauge to abilities of the people leading the co-op and the likelihood
of success of the business concept and implimentation plan.  You may say that
this is just creating more gov. bureauocracy, but it takes work to do the 
job of governing, and this is a worthy cause.

response 12 of 89:

Feb 4 15:35 UTC 1995

In his abrasive way, rogue is saying that the Loan Guarantees you request
would not be needed if banks would be willing to loan to co-ops.
Rogue believes that they are unwilling to make these loans for a valid
reason. I agree with that. Banks are not unwilling to make a profit by 
lending to anyone. They are very shy of making risky loans, though, and
quite justifiably.

So the conclusion seems inescapable that these loans you wish to guarantee
are risky. Well, maybe not inescapable, you seem toave come up with a 
conspiracy theory that banks are the bad guys out to throttle coops because
they aren't greedily exploiting minimum wage workers. That's poppycock.

response 14 of 89:

Feb 4 18:44 UTC 1995

There is an undocumented premise here - asserted but not supported. Are
banks "reluctant" to loan to cooperatives? Banks loan to businesses
on the basis of their business plan, and a cooperative can have a 
business plan as good as any "for profit" business - better, in fact,
since they usually don't have any nonparticipating shareholders that expect 
big returns on their investments.

response 16 of 89:

Feb 4 19:43 UTC 1995

Yea! New Name: Co-op Solutions Party.  No mention of the s word on the 
platform.
I has a nice ring because america craves solutions to its nagging and even
scarey problems.

response 18 of 89:

Feb 4 23:32 UTC 1995

hmmm, that's funny.  i thought the credit union *was* a co-op.  i've
gotten loans there for co-ops before.

response 20 of 89:

Feb 5 04:11 UTC 1995

   I haven't thought of that in a while now, but Valerie is right about
the word "People's".  Here in Ann Arbor, there is a long history revolving
around "people" and "human" such that those names turn people off.  I know
my mother harbors bad feelings about the coops, and I'm not sure why.
Possibly the connection with things like the "people's ballroom", a dance-hall
project that seems to raise the ire of a lot of people in town.

   As far as the party goes Bill, it's interesting.

response 22 of 89:

Feb 5 09:35 UTC 1995

There is a possibility that co-ops are not as "efficient" as capitalist 
companies.  A good co-op does not try to imitate the manipulative and "let's
see how much I can squeeze out of my employees" attitude of most bnsnpeeps.
You work hard all right, hard at seeing how hard you can get your employees to
work, ol' stress generator.  And don't think it doesn't affect you.  Co-ops ddo
 have some offsetting advantages, such as the fact that they're not so
alienated and thus genuinely motivate employees as no MBA with his/her
"organizational psychology" can.  As far as being less well managed, I guess
you share the  same biases that banks and most bosses share.  The institutions
in this  economy will not advance (or even hire) someone who is not greed
oriented. They have an ethic that is, in fact, anti-ethical: make money at any
cost; motivate by selfishness; manipulate for employee identification w. the
company and employee belief that the company "cares" about the employee: the
company doesn't give a good rats ass-f..k about the employee, except to the
extent that his/her condition affects the profitability of the company and
maintain- ance of cooperative employees (cooperative in the sense of "we do the
 operating and you do the co-).

response 24 of 89:

Feb 5 20:15 UTC 1995

Yea, I'm sorry to sound so harsh.  Diplomacy is not my strong point.  I too am
turned off by idiologues, who ruined any chance for meaningful change in the
60's by being too abrasive, confrontational, and demanding too much.  I 
realize that the present system is not all the evil, but alot of "people 
handling" goes on, beyond what is necessary.  It is not necessarily so, that
co-ops are less efficient than private bsns.  It's unfortunate that so many
co-ops have been by idiologues who bind things down w. political struggles,
trying to impose their idea of utopia or "justice."  Some other co-ops are
started by well meaning but inexperienced people with a worthy idea but lacking
the ability to effectuate it.  But that's sort of the underlying assumption of
The Co-op Solutions Party: Take the fear, apprehension and reluctance to get
involved away from the middle and upper middle classes, the "able," as it were,
and recruit them into making a better world than just living as passive 
consumers whose work life is often wasted in misdirected and often destructive
persuits.  Yuppie Socialism, in the original, non pejorative definition of
the word as coined by Gary Hart, bright, able Young Urban Professionals.
It's a shame the term Yuppie has been smeared to refer to business lizards,
but then, so has the term "professional" been usurped by salesmen, sleazy 
consultants, and "investment advisors."  I can too spell "ideologues:" we do 
get tired.