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nij
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Is America superior ???
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May 28 02:38 UTC 1994 |
Just saw a talk on NBC-Superchannel's Rivera about a high-school (?)
in Orlnado, FL., whos schoolboard stated in the curriculum:
"America's Culture is superior to all other cultures in the world".
The discussion about it really surprised me. The main
arguement against it was, that the children will find this out on
their own,
they don't have to be taught about it. To give them thi s result
would decrease their ability to find out the truth fromt the facts.
But every American would share this opinion.
Saying American's culture is superior
means - the other way round -.
all other cultures are inferior. Right ???
Let me ask You a question, dear americans :
What makes You think, you're the crown of creation ??
(pls. don't misunderstand me: there's pure curiousity in this
question, rather than any anti-americanism.)
There are more people murdered in the USA every year than in an
average civil war. There is a lot of racism. Death penalty.
Enourmously social problems. Weapon Exports in any country who can pay.
and lots more...
Or was it just a bunch of WASPs trying to make us believe that
America's majority shares their nationalistic dogma ??
joerg
(from a definitely NOT superior culture)
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| 50 responses total. |
kentn
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response 1 of 50:
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May 28 04:44 UTC 1994 |
It's probably not wise to extrapolate one school board's actions to
the whole U.S.A. It's a large country with many opinions and many
subcultures. To be honest I don't find a bit of geo/ethno-centrism
to be all that surprising. Every place would like to be the best
at something...
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nij
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response 2 of 50:
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May 28 05:00 UTC 1994 |
maybe I didn't make it clear:
the point was for me the way this was discussed on TV.
so it became more a 'common sense' than a singular florida-schoolboard-
opinion.
Maybe I'm a bit unclear about the term 'superior'. Doesn't it include
a WORTH?
and, by the way: how does a ethno-centrism look like in
multicultural society like the american ??
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jason242
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response 3 of 50:
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May 28 08:26 UTC 1994 |
Its a nightmare. I for one think the American culture stinx. There is no
set culture. The diversity is interseting, but it causes SO many problems.
Don't get me wrong now, I wouldn't have it any other way ;)
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aaron
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response 4 of 50:
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May 28 16:10 UTC 1994 |
Where can I go to find a "set culture"?
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tnt
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response 5 of 50:
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May 29 02:18 UTC 1994 |
The dairy section of your local grocery store.
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other
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response 6 of 50:
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Jun 2 16:51 UTC 1994 |
Good one, Tim! (Nice to see your sense of humor is working again.)
I personally am disgusted with the idea of trying to teach that any
culture or people is superior to another culture or people. The way in which
this concept was discussed on TV indicates more to me the problem with the]
commercial TV network than a problem with american attitude in general.
It has been shown repeatedly that what appears on the idiot box screen
does not in the least accurately reflect american society, but rather it
picks out aspects of society and blows them all out of proportion to achieve
its own agenda, the selling of product.
Most Americans are probably quite boring unless you're a sociologist,
and maybe even then. What TV does is scan the surface for those who stand
WAY out, and use them to entertain and shock the rest of us so we'll be glued
to the tube and a captive audience for the advertisers.
Much of our country's problems today derive from the inability of our
population to recognize the difference between TV and real life. (My opinion!)
This is an education issue.
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kaplan
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response 7 of 50:
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Jun 3 21:36 UTC 1994 |
The constitution and bill of rights of the USA may well be superior to
similar documents around the world. But a statement about the superiority
of "America's Culture" needs to include a definition of "America's
Culture" before I can evaluate it.
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aaron
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response 8 of 50:
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Jun 4 19:16 UTC 1994 |
Where's the argument. Clearly, Appalachian and U.S. inner city cultures
are superior to all others, present or historic.
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other
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response 9 of 50:
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Jun 5 04:42 UTC 1994 |
Is that a macrobiological response?
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aaron
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response 10 of 50:
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Jun 5 15:07 UTC 1994 |
Er... It was a sarcastic response.
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jason242
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response 11 of 50:
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Jun 6 22:42 UTC 1994 |
Gee, even I realized that!:)
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asp
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response 12 of 50:
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Jul 13 20:48 UTC 1994 |
when I first heard about this (the school board in Fl) I was in school
so I didn't know that any discussion had been televised. I saw it in a
newspaper adn it was, in my opinon, on of the most disgusting thinkgs I had
ever heard. (and let me tell you, I've heard some pretty disgusting things
) First of all, it si a national issue because the same people who brought
that rule about are literally "moving in" on school boards around the
country (I think you may know this already). BUt what makes it really
horrible in my opinion is that it's makink blatant somethink that many
of us have to deal with every single day. The persistent idea that
white american culture is superior to every other culture. When it is
convenient, people make reference to the fackt that "we are a
multicultureal society", and of course we are, but the sad thing is, that
the people who run the tv progamming and are generally in power are also
part of mainstream white american culture and so that's what I see everwhere
I look and that's what I've grown up with seeing (and I _did_ grow up in
Ann Arbor, in case you're wondering.) What I remember the school board
wanted their chidren to learn was that "american culture is to superior
to all others" but at the same time, another "rule" called for teaching
children "respect for other cultures" -- Good luck! (hopefully you can
just smell the sarcasm)
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tnt
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response 13 of 50:
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Jul 15 08:47 UTC 1994 |
While I wouldn't say white American culture is "the best" (I'd save that
for one of the Oriental or Northen European/Baltic cultures), we sure as
hell are better than most others.
This isn't something I gloat over as I say Heil Hitler!" or anything,
but I think it is a simple fact.
Which one nation is always jumping up to help others? WHat one
nation shells out the most for the UN? We have the largest technological,
scientific & financial base, & we use it to help other nations without
trying to dominate them. This of course is an American thing, not just
a white American thing.
But, when as a whole, you look at how totally phucked up American
black culture (again, this is a factual generality, I realize that there
isn't just one black culture here, nor is there just one white culture in
the U.S>A.) is, wlarge difference in life expectancy rates, due to black
violent crime, medical problems, educational & economic deficiencies, etc.
as compared to the white population, American whites have a clear advantage.
Of course, the reason for the black American culture having these
abundance of negative aspects is debateable, but the purpose of this
response is to merely support my opinion that American culture --particularly
'white American culture' (sic) is better off (aka superior) to most
others, in terms of 'quality of life,' scientific advances/technology, &
care/compassion (as a nation) for democratic principles & supporting/impro-
ving the quality of life for less fortunate nations.
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asp
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response 14 of 50:
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Jul 15 18:44 UTC 1994 |
You've got to be kidding me. You did not actually say that Black American
culture has an "abundance of negative aspects", did you? Ask anyone in the
majority of countries around the world, and you'll find that far from
being te totally generous minded society that you imagine, in just about every
single case money from te US or the World Bank/IMF comes with a pretty hefty
pricetag: support the introduction of Multinational businesses (most of
them based in teh US) into your country, develop your industry to fulfill
the desires of American consumers, and learn to deal with the explotiation of
your country
I don't know, it just doesn't sound too great to me.
Also I have to question the fact that you claim that because white
Americans have more advantages thay're better. If this is not what you
meant, please explain.
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tnt
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response 15 of 50:
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Jul 16 10:16 UTC 1994 |
'BLACK AMERICAN CULTURE' HAS AN ABUNDANCE OF NEGATIVE ASPECTS.
But no, I didn't say that American honkies are better than American
bruthas & sistas -- only that their 'culture' is.
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aaron
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response 16 of 50:
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Jul 16 17:34 UTC 1994 |
I believe Hoolie means to refer to black american *popular* culture or
inner city culture.
The black american middle class culture is not that much different from
white american middle class culture. But it doesn't get much attention.
Painting inner city culture with too broad a brush is unfair, certainly.
But there are a lot of objective measures by which inner city culture
(no matter the race) is not as functional as the "culture" of more affluent
areas. And Hoolie is correct in his assertion that the present welfare
programs have contributed to this phenomenon.
Frankly, I don't care much for white american popular culture.
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asp
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response 17 of 50:
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Jul 26 20:43 UTC 1994 |
Sorry for the much delayed response (doing this only at work and having
not so much time has a lot to do with it) but here goes...
Black American culture can not be separated from white American culture.
This is because it is not possible to have the "high sstandard of living"
of (let's change the terminology a little to reflect realities, as aaron
pointed out, there are a number of middle class blacks) the American
middle to upper class without having a lower class do most of the dirty
work. Sadly, to a large extent, in this country, the divisions over who
is in the lower classes and who is in te upper has a lot to do with
skin color. I'm just talking stats here, I'm making no historical references
(although I could, since I _am_ a history major...). I perrsonally do not
think that a group of people can have a superior culture just because it
has a higher standard of living, expecially if they get that higher standard of
living from having others do a lot of the work. Here, I'd like to bring
immigrants into the picture (just to make it a little more realistic) and
especially non-European/non-white immigrants. The fact is, a lot of the
labor in the secondary labor market (what I like to call "shitjobs" because
they are about as fun and pay about that much) is done by these immigrants
(I'm limiting myself to the U.S. for the moment, but not for long!).
How is this? While there certainly are a lot of white people in the lower
classes, percentage-wise, there are more in the middle to upper classes.
The opposite tends to be true for the other two groups I mentioned (Blacks
and Immigrants) I'm not going to get into why that is, actually, because
I think I'll let you respond to what I've sadi so far, but before I go,
here's teh part about the rest of the world...
if you look at the tags on most of the items that are for sale in stores,
you'll notice (you no doubt already have) that most of it si made in other
countries. As you may or may not know, the simple reason for htis is that
it's cheaper to do it that way. Because of the risk of getting involved with
annoying labor laws in the U.S., it's simply easier to go somewhere else,
just over the border to Mexico, for example, and make the stuff there.
--I've got to go, so I'll stop here, but I'd liek to hear what you have to say
about what I've written so far.
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tnt
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response 18 of 50:
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Jul 27 06:05 UTC 1994 |
Those nasty jobs might indeed be nasty, but the bottom-line (IMHO) is
that without them, many of the people wouldn't have ANY income, other
than social assistance programs.
I guess I'm a follower of the old 'Puritan ethic' -- work hard & ye
shall succeed.
I'm speaking as someone (a honky at that!) who has had to change
toilet seats at a company ('O' shaped ones don't meet code, whereas the 'U'
shaped ones do!).
There are plenty of well-educated, motivated people of ALL races (& any
other labels you might want to stick them with) who, due to today's economy,
are stuck with jobs way below their skill level. "Shit job" is a relative
term. Bill Gates probably wouldn't be happy earning $5/hour cutting lawns
or shovelling snow (neither would I, which is probably the only thing I
have in common with him!), but Pedro Gonzalez, who has no formal education &
is a legal immigrant here in the U.S> would jump at the chance to get that
job! Is he wrong to do so? Should he 'hold out' & apply for that Chief
Executive opening at Ben & Jerry's, or wait until Bill Gates is ready to
retire, & apply for that job?
I think that most of the 'unskilled' jobs go to 'unskilled' people.
If you think that is unfair because a large percentage of these 'unskilled'
people happen to meet the criteria of some sort of 'minority' label, then
so be it.
What happened to all those Orientals who worked the laundromats &
constructed railroads in the late 1800s/early 1900s? How come their
ancestors aren't vying for so many of the 'shit jobs' these days?
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srw
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response 19 of 50:
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Jul 27 07:26 UTC 1994 |
<descendents>
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tnt
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response 20 of 50:
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Jul 28 04:58 UTC 1994 |
Thank you!
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asp
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response 21 of 50:
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Aug 1 18:20 UTC 1994 |
Yes, I do think that because most of the "unskilled" jobs go to people who
"happen to meet the criteria of some sort of 'minority' label" because that
suggests to me that something is going on. There can only be two reasons for
this kind of disparity: 1) there is something inherently wrong with
'minorities' or 2) there is something wrong with society and the way things
are. I personally fully reject option one and so I feel the need to invegate
option 2. No doubt you feel there is something in the idea that something is
wrong with (to use your example) "black" culture and that is why they do not
succeed in this country to the extent that whites do. I say there is a reason
for Blacks having the problems that they have that does not really have
anything to do with " culture", it has more to do with the fact that the
opportunities are not the same for both groups. You say you believe in the
"Puritan ethic" but from what I've seen, one of the major problems with society
is that many "minorities" believe in this idea so that when it just doesn't
happen, the opportunities just seem to pass you over, someone who's had far
less education and experience gets promoted just a little bit faster and you
wonder why, it's very easy to become bitter and figure that the " American
dream" just isn't for people of color or women. Some of the people at my
school who work the hardest are these people. I can tell you this from my own
experience (certainly there are plenty of white males who work really hard, but
I'm talking percentages). Many of them work hard becasue they've got to keep
the many grants and scholarships that are getting them through school so
they've got to maintain the grades (and work up to 1 hours a week). Most white
students don't work as hard, they may spend a lot of time in the library, but
they don't usually work very much, if at all (by the way, the limit for number
of hours you can work in a week in my school is officially 10 hours). And the
result? After they graduate, it's the white males who do better. Funny how
things seem to work, isn't it? That's why I'm not so sure I really believe in
the "Puritan ethic" it's not at all guaranteed that you will succeed if all
you've got going for you is hard work.
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carson
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response 22 of 50:
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Aug 2 06:15 UTC 1994 |
(success is relative.)
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asp
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response 23 of 50:
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Aug 2 22:43 UTC 1994 |
on rereading my entry, on the line where it ways "and work up to 1 hours a
week" it should say "work up to 14 hours a week"
carson, success may be relative, but if you can't _choose_ which kinds of
success you can achieve, while others with the same abilities can, something's
wrong.
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tnt
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response 24 of 50:
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Aug 3 06:18 UTC 1994 |
Anyone who assumes they CAN'T, SHOULDN'T!
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