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ziggy
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The Kerrigan attack item
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Jan 21 23:33 UTC 1994 |
I thought with all of the contraversy over the Kerrigan attack a debate item
was on hand. How do you feel about the attack? Do you think Harding knew
about it? Should she still go to Lillihammer?
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| 231 responses total. |
rogue
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response 1 of 231:
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Jan 22 01:18 UTC 1994 |
Harding should go to the Olympics. If Harding is taken off the team without
being convicted in the crime, I hope she sues the Olympic committee for
tens of millions and wins. In other words, Harding should go unless she
is convicted.
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gregc
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response 2 of 231:
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Jan 22 01:41 UTC 1994 |
Agreed. While she, unfortunately, doesn't really have a chance now because
of all the bad publicity, there is absolutely no evidence that implicates
her, other than media speculation and hearsay.
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scg
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response 3 of 231:
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Jan 22 02:09 UTC 1994 |
I agree with Jemmie on this one.
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odie
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response 4 of 231:
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Jan 22 02:31 UTC 1994 |
Uh, This is a test. This is only a test.
I however, agree with everyone else.
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ziggy
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response 5 of 231:
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Jan 22 03:20 UTC 1994 |
A test.
I feel that Harding should go unless convicted. Does anyone think harding
was involved?
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dam
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response 6 of 231:
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Jan 22 03:59 UTC 1994 |
Aww, Someone has to believe that she should be canned right here and now...
personally I don't, unless there is proof. And that bodyguard saying that
she had everything to do with it doesn't count... well, there is enough
dirt already about what kind of person he is for many more to discount
him saying she was involved... (nevermind that last sentance, I'm tired
and can't figure it out...)
so yeah, she should go to the olympics unless convicted first.
I don't know what the olympic comittee says about letting people go who
are about to stand trial eventually but aren't yet proved guilty, if she
should stand trial for this.
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bap
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response 7 of 231:
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Jan 22 04:32 UTC 1994 |
I will not say she is either guilty or innocent, but I believe she should
resign from the games and admit she is finished in skating. Doubt she could
get a job as a second stringer with Disney on Ice after this.
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scg
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response 8 of 231:
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Jan 22 04:40 UTC 1994 |
Let's get one thing strait here. She will not get convicted within the next
ten days, which is when the decision will be made. I would say she should go
unless *indicted*. To kick her off the team on pure speculation, however,
would not be justafiable. In that case, it would be catoring hysteria, rather
than to facts.
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kami
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response 9 of 231:
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Jan 22 04:46 UTC 1994 |
cheerleaders in texas, skaters in detroit, it's all the same. They are called
the Olympic GAMES, right?!!!! (sigh). I don't have to like her, but if she can
skate and isn't indicted (I agree with Steve), I guess she has a right to go.
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scg
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response 10 of 231:
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Jan 22 04:55 UTC 1994 |
"It's just a game" is generally my attitude about it. Unfortunately, a lot of
people seem to be missing that point in sports. One of the memories that
stands out most from the bike road race national championships last year comes
from when I was standing around after the time trail (individual race against
the clock). There was a very angry guy who was yelling at everybody in the
area about how horrible it was that he had only gotten 22nd. It appeared that
this "awful" placing was the worst thing that could possibly happen to him.
Two things came to mind. First of all, it's just a race. Secondly, 22nd in
the whole United States is a pretty good placing. I sure would have been
happy with it. For those people who think that anything less than first place
is the end of the world, get a grip!
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kami
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response 11 of 231:
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Jan 22 05:00 UTC 1994 |
there's an old story about a guy who thinks his life is pretty rough. When he
asks for advice, the person he asked tells him to do a series of things that
make it much tougher, then gradually get him back to where he started-- if he
can walk, see, ride a bike, and has time to bitch about his placing, 22nd aint
so bad!!
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scg
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response 12 of 231:
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Jan 22 05:06 UTC 1994 |
My attitude on it is that I am out there to have fun. If I do well, that's
all the better, but the only way I could really lose is if I didn't have fun
with it. If I weren't having fun, what would be the point? Some people, on
the other hand, seem to have lost site of that aspect.
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rogue
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response 13 of 231:
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Jan 22 05:40 UTC 1994 |
#7: With all due respect, I don't think you have the slightest idea what
Harding (and many other athletes) go through to get to the top.
Actually, I am positive you don't know what you're talking about. Harding
has spent 20 years getting to where she is. Her parents have sacrificed
themselves. Harding has given herself totally and absolutely to the
pursuit of ice skating perfection. Suddenly, because her competitor
was unlucky, she is suppose to resign and trash 20 years of sweat
and tears? Let's put it this way, bap. If she had that mentality, she
would never have gotten to where she is now.
#9: There's no such thing as a "game" at the Olympics. When you spend
8 hours or more training for one activity, you don't view it as a
game. It is *life*. That's the way it is; That's the way it should be.
The successful do not accept failures. Thise is as true in athletics as
it is in business and life. Go ask the top tennis players if tennis is
a "game" to them. Go ask the top baseball players if baseball is a "game"
to them. When I played competitive sports, each game was life. Losing
was bitter because winning was really the *only* thing that mattered. If
you don't believe that, check out who is honored at the end of each
competition at the Olympics.
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scg
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response 14 of 231:
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Jan 22 06:07 UTC 1994 |
I would not say that the successful do not accept failures. On the contrary,
the successful learn from failures and use them to their advantage next time.
Yes, for many people their sport is a life. However, in most -- but not
all -- cases, the important thing about winning is to have won fairly. I
would bet that it would be very hard to find a top athlete who would want
their competition to be injured so they would have to compete for the
victory. Yes, there are some people who might want the competition to
have a bad day, but not a serious injury. As for the contention that
anything less than an Olympic gold might not be good enough for some
dedicated athletes, if that was all they could accept they would never
have gotten there in the first place. The preparation requires too many
years of lesser events.
My view of this may differ from a lot of popular American sports,
since there really isn't a way to "lose" a bike race, but I imagine it
probably would hold true in a sport such as figure skating, since that is
also something that includes many competitors. When I used to play soccer
we would either win or lose, and if the team was any good, we would win at
least half our games. Sports that have many people competing in the same
event are a bit different. In a bike race, no matter what place I come in
I have beaten somebody. If I come in last, at least I finished. If I win
then so much the better, but the alternative to winning isn't losing.
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albaugh
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response 15 of 231:
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Jan 22 07:11 UTC 1994 |
I just hope it turns out that Tanya had NOTHING to do with any of the
Kerrigan mess. Her success in skating seems to be the ONE thing that has
turned out pretty well in her life, and it would be really sad if she
ruined it by being part of an attack on a competitor. Until/unless there
is serious, credible evidence implicating her, then I agree with others
that she should be allowed to compete in the olympics. Of course, the USOC
has been hoping that she'd just withdraw - it would make their job easier.
But there (so far) has been no reason to do so, although in many people's
minds I'm sure she has been judged "guilty by association." In that respect,
at least, she needs to pick an new bunch of friends/associates after this
is over, that's for sure!
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tnt
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response 16 of 231:
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Jan 22 07:19 UTC 1994 |
Tanya is simply a hard-working bitch, motivated by $$$. That's the
American way.
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srw
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response 17 of 231:
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Jan 22 07:23 UTC 1994 |
I would agree with Jemmie on this one. A lot of people are saying that
it's just a game. Well maybe it should be, but it isn't. It's a person's
entire life (at that level) like it or lump it.
I guess I disagree with most of you about Tonya. I don't know whether or
not she participated in this conspiracy to injure Nancy Kerrigan, but
I *believe* she did. I believe that she will be found guilty of this
crime and be sentenced to jail for it. I could be wrong of course.
There doesn't appear to be any way to prevent Tonya from competing,
but if I turn out to be correct, then I believe her actions should
have resulted in her forfeiting her right to represent the USA in
Lillehammer. The timing is such that this will be impossible. I
regret that.
No I do not think she should lose her chance to compete without
first being convicted. It's one of the things I like about this
country. The Grand Jury indictment is scheduled for early Feb., just
a few days after the USOC decision. Of course it would not be a
conviction, and so even if it happened first shouldn't matter to the
USOC. Of course the USOC might not see it that way, but this is moot..
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gregc
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response 18 of 231:
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Jan 22 08:52 UTC 1994 |
Another thing:
The Olympics is *supposed* to be about finding the BEST person in a particular
sport, not the most popular, or the most likable, or the most politically
correct or the most all-american-boy/girl. It's about the best.
Even if Kerrigan had competed and won, Harding would have come in second
and she would still be on the team. Her *ability* put her in place for
the team, and it would be a crock if the USOC kept her off on the suspicion
of wrong doing. With no hard evidence it would a travesty.
I say, put her on the team. If more evidence comes to light before the
actual Olympics, they can always boot her off later.
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rogue
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response 19 of 231:
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Jan 22 14:02 UTC 1994 |
#14: There's a difference between learning from one's mistakes and accepting
("mistakes" should be "failures") them. Winning is the only thing that
matters, Steve. In the world series, if Toronto had gotten into a bus
accident and 5 of their most important players were injured, would
Philadelphia have resigned? Absolutely not.
#16: That's the best way.
#17: Exactly. To declare an activity that someone has dedicated his/her
entire life and soul to as a "game" is insulting, degrading and
ignorant. Walk up to Troy Aikman or Steve Young this weekend and ask
them if the football match this weekend is a "game". And they don't
even train as hard as Harding. Go ask Wayne Gretzky if hockey is a
"game". Not so unsimilar: Go ask Novell if the network industry is
a "game".
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chelsea
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response 20 of 231:
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Jan 22 14:06 UTC 1994 |
In respect to the talent the rest of the world will be bringing
to Norway neither of these women have a chance. And in my humble
opinion, the only reason this has become such a media circus is
because it's womens figure skaters we're talking about not male luge
runners. She's tough talking, smokes, is proficient at auto mechanics,
hunts and shoots, and doesn't take it from anyone. She's guilty by
lifestyle.
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aaron
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response 21 of 231:
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Jan 22 14:16 UTC 1994 |
re #19: So, that rules out all sports as "games." And chess, I
suppose. Wait -- people make a living producing "Hollywood
Squares" -- we wouldn't want to trivialize tic-tac-toe by
calling it a game, would we....
The mere fact that you can make a living, and at times a very
good living, playing a game doesn't transform the game into
something more. And the fact that the word "game" accurately
describes the underlying contest does not trivialize that
contest.
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scg
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response 22 of 231:
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Jan 22 14:33 UTC 1994 |
re 19:
If a team or individual wins because an other person got hurt, yes it
is still great to win, but it is not *as* great as if it was won against
everybody. In fact there are some top athletes who won't even celebrate
victories like that. For example, in a recent Tour de France, when the race
leader crashed out of the race and put Greg LeMond in the lead, LeMond refused
to wear the leaders' jersey the next day since he had won it because of a
crash, rather than winning it. Now, LeMond may be the exception. He has
been criticized for not being dedicated enough to cycling (among other things,
he has been accused of playing golf too much when he should be resting), but
this does show that not all professional athletes have the winning is
everything mentality.
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rcurl
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response 23 of 231:
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Jan 22 19:54 UTC 1994 |
I don 't have much to add (but since when does that stop a grexer?).
a) I think there is a high probability that Harding was aware of the
plot, but I would be very glad to be wrong. If she isn't, she's an
angel in the den of thieves.
b) If she is indicted, anytime right up to the finals, she should be
disqualified. She could be cleared, in which case she could try again.
If cleared, she'd have a fine professional future (which I suspect would
actually be more important to such a practical woman).
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odie
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response 24 of 231:
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Jan 22 19:59 UTC 1994 |
I think that Tonya Harding should be allowed ?n the team unless
indicted
also. She had to give up leading a normal childhood, and a normal life just to
skate. I don't think that because her ex-husband, and body are complete
sociopathic jerks she should lose her life-long dream. She deserved to at
least get a chance. The two, Eckhardt and Gilooly have both been described by
their friends as "having a strange perception of the truth". And those are
their friends. Unless there is a money trail or something to Tonya, or if the
evidence gets to great, then she should be kicked of the team, but then and
only then.
On the topic of the U.S. olympic team not being as good as many other
teams, I would like to point out that in 92 Kerrigan got the bronze, losing
only to Yamaguchi and Ito. Both have gone pro. At the World figure skating
contest in 93 Kerrigan got the silver, and Harding got the bronze, losing to
Yamaguchi(who hadn't yet gone pro). I think that we have a great chance at
Lillehammer.
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