Second-hand smoke appears to predispose children to heart disease.

Nov 1 15:16 UTC 1997

                Smoke hurts kids' cholesterol status
(From Science News, volume 152 #14, 10/4/97.  Author:  Nathan Seppa.
Reproduced without permission.  Typos are mine.)
 
Children at high risk of heart disease who live in houses with smokers
have significantly lower concentrations of HDL cholesterol, the good
cholesterol, than their counterparts living in smokefree houses, a
study in the Sept. 2 CIRCULATION finds.
 
Researchers recruited 103 children whose HDL concentrations placed
them in the bottom fifth percentile for their age group; 28 of the
children lived with at least one smoker.  They had similar fat intake,
degree of obesity, and amounts of exercise as the 75 children who
lived in smokefree homes.  Most of the children had a family history
of heart disease.
 
Both groups had very high concentrations of LDL cholesterol, the bad
cholesterol, in their blood.  HDL concentrations in children exposed
to secondhand smoke, however, were only about 90 percent of those in
the smokefree counterparts, says Ellis J. Neufeld, a pediatrician and
hematologist at Harvard Medical School in Boston.
 
The findings indicate the need for a larger study on the effects of
passive smoke on children at the risk of heart problems, he says.  A
10 percent change in HDL would be difficult to achieve through diet or
exercise.  "The next step is to convince parents to get the smoke out
of the house,", Neufeld says.

response 2 of 71:

Nov 1 18:07 UTC 1997

I have never understood people who smoke around kids. The worst is when I am
driving and see another driver smoking, with all the windows up, and a baby in
the back seat. So the kid has no choice but to breathe in that stuff. Does the
parent just not care or what? 

As an asthmatic, I'm pretty vocal about asking people not to smoke around me.
Fortunately, many smokers are considerate... I've had a few strangers ask if it
is ok for them to light up around me. It annoys me to death that any time I
want to go to a concert or some big gathering, I am expected to inhale the
crud, risking an attack or hoarseness from breathing it in. Not to mention
coming home smelling like an ashtray. Yes, it's my choice to attend things, but
don't I have the right to clean air?

I also don't understand smokers tossing their butts out of cars, onto the
ground. The world is not your ashtray! Why do you think cars come with ashtrays
built in? Grrrr.

response 4 of 71:

Nov 1 23:24 UTC 1997

i'd bet most smokers who throw their butts out the car window do so because
either they don't want the hassle of cleaning out the car ashtrays or they
don't want the car smelling like one.

response 6 of 71:

Nov 2 05:28 UTC 1997

I saw a loving dad holding a wiggly toddler in one arm, a cigarette in
the other hand.  Ugh!  What was he THINKING?  Not just the smoke, the
danger of burns...

response 8 of 71:

Nov 3 21:53 UTC 1997

  I, too, was bothered by #6 but chose to let it pass when I first
  read it because I didn't have time for a response..  Without specifically
  talking about kami (I don't know whether she feels this way or not..) 
  I'm really bothered by the seemingly rapidly growing number of people 
  in our society who see it as being their place to judge how others are
  raising, disciplining, teaching their children..  If you hold strong
  opinions on how children should be reared feel free to put them into
  practice yourself but short of actual criminal abuse (which is an
  awfully broad category these days) I think it's pretty nosy to presume
  that you know what's best for someone else's child.

response 10 of 71:

Nov 4 05:16 UTC 1997

Well then what about not smoking so you can at least live to see your kids grow
up, and be healthy enough to play and spend time with them? The kids don't have
to SEE you smoke anything. Kids are smarter than we give them credit for
sometimes... if they know you smoke, it's likely they'll pick it up later on
(or be so repulsed they'll run from it). The do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do does not
work on kids. My grandfather smoked a pipe and cigs, until heart attacks forced
him to quit. Although he was in his late 50s at the time, I remember playing
with him in the backyard and having to take a break every 10 minutes or so
because he couldn't stop coughing. 

response 12 of 71:

Nov 4 07:22 UTC 1997

Jep, are #6 and #7 really analogous?  I *do* take my kids to McD's on
occasion.  I also take them into the presence of smokers on occasion.  Their
regular diet consists of healthy, appropriate, nutritionally balanced food
and their usual environment is *moderately* clean-aired.  While I admit that
I'm neglegent in allowing so much dust and probable mold to build up (no,
neither of them has asthma or any apparant resperatory allergies), I'm not
sure that's *quite* the same category.  How many kids per year die in house
fires caused by cigarettes?  How many kids per year aquire cigarette burns
(not counting those deliberately inflicted by abusive parents)?  How many
asthma attacks are triggered by second hand smoke?  No, I can't change the
parenting choices of another family.  Nor do I know them well enough to
comment, although I might ask a question of some mutual friends, who also have
kids and one of whom also smokes, regarding that choice and its effect on the
kids.  And *certainly* I have the right to comment here; that's called the
first amendment...

response 14 of 71:

Nov 4 15:38 UTC 1997

I don't have any problem with you expressing an opinion, kami (or
remmers, or anyone else).  I don't have any problem with me expressing
a different opinion, either.

Your viewpoints, I am sorry to say, are very disturbing.  For example:

>How many kids per year aquire cigarette burns
>(not counting those deliberately inflicted by abusive parents)?

How many *do*?  Both of my parents smoked throughout my entire 
childhood.  I was never burned by one of their cigarettes.  Do you have 
any statistics, are you referring to any facts whatsoever, or are you 
just trying to invoke the horror of a possibility?

It was the parenthetical part that really struck me, though.  It reminds 
me of arguments I have personally heard against gay schoolteachers on 
the basis that one of them might sexually abuse a child.  It's just 
plain irrational panic.

What about the abusive health-conscious adult who dumps hot vegetables 
from the wok on his/her baby?  This scenario could happen, too.  Let's 
not forget to panic about the epidemic of wok-wielding child abusers!

My comment in #7 was intended to make a point: I don't think *you* would 
enjoy someone else telling you how to live your life, and give you rules 
for raising your child, and treat you like an inferior because you don't 
follow their rules, which are a sacrifice for you but not the other 
person.  If you think it's appropriate for other people to do things 
like that to you, then feel free to accept it.  I won't accept it.

response 16 of 71:

Nov 4 19:21 UTC 1997

I wouldn't be surprised, if some time in the *near* future, smoking in the
presence of a small child would be considered child abuse.  A child belongs
to a parent no more than a pet and if society decides that your actions are
abusive, your my forfeit your privilege of caring for your child (or pet)
unless you change your ways.  (And you will be monitored by the Department
of Protective Services to be sure you conform.)

response 18 of 71:

Nov 4 21:22 UTC 1997

  <throws up hands in despair>

response 20 of 71:

Nov 5 02:42 UTC 1997

>any statistics, are you referring to any facts whatsoever, or are you
Had some statistics about types of physical abuse, etc. but a) I think they
were slightly hysterical in the first place and b) I've long since forgotten.

>childhood.  I was never burned by one of their cigarettes.  Do you have
Fortunate.  And the more common case.  And yet, I've read specific cases of
kids whose eyes were damaged by cigarette ash in a moving car (open window),
whose clothing or hair was singed (an odd one), whose arms or faces were
marred by moving too fast for the parent to get his/her cigarette out of the
way, and the classic kid who found the matches...(Now, mine did that- I use
candles.  No one was hurt and I still have the same number of kids...>:}  )

>It was the parenthetical part that really struck me, though.  It reminds
Sorry, but it does happen.  It's almost a "classic" form of extreme abuse.
While most smokers are caring, loving, careful parents, I find it unlikely
that a nonsmoker would go *find* a cigarette with which to "discipline" (ugh)
his/her kid, so I was being careful to separate the abuse issue in which
smoking is coincidental from the accident harm which can sometimes be caused
by cigarettes (or other fire) near kids.

>What about the abusive health-conscious adult who dumps hot vegetables
Again, two different issues; it *did* happen to Timothy a few years back;
Michael was cooking fried tofu, Tim came to watch and the tofu spattered
before Michael could tell him to get back.  And there I was too sick with a
migraine to move or talk, trying to tell him to get the baby (ok, older
toddler, but at that point it's a detail) into a cool bathtub.  Fortunately,
Timothy's a rational kid.  Also fortunately- no one was trying to pin a claim
of child abuse on us or we'd have been hosed...

And worse, in that "coincidentally related" issue, there *are* cases of
abusive parents putting their kids' hands in boiling water or on hot stoves
to "show them" (what hot is, not to touch, I don't know.).  Don't know of any
hot grease examples, and the veggies thing is a bit extreme.

>enjoy someone else telling you how to live your life, and give you rules
It is indeed a very delicate subject, and seldom well handled.  Even with
pretty good friends, it's easy to alienate them by butting in unasked.  And
while asking questions or educating is better, it can be patronizing and
offensive.  And yet, so many kids are harmed, some die, and folks are left
going "Why didn't anyone do anything about it" while everyone was being
careful not to offend the parent.  What about a toddler out of a carseat? 
What about an infant on his mother's lap in a car?  Not only are these things
illegal, they can be lethal.  And you know the parents love the kid dearly,
and you don't want to invade their privacy, but perhaps a real life story will
make the point that a commercial didn't, and perhaps you discover that they
couldn't afford a car seat or that they're juggling vehicles and you can help
out in some fashion.  Been there.  Awkward, but so are flattened faces.

response 22 of 71:

Nov 7 19:05 UTC 1997

As a kid, I've gotten cigarette ash in the face, and cigarette burns, 
under circumstances kami described.  My mom, then a 2 pack/day smoker,
was very careful with lit cigarettes.  But on a couple of occasions
it wasn't quite enough.  I suffered no lasting damage.

But to this day, I hate cigarettes, and don't like to be around 
people who have a lit one in their hand - particularly if they're
talking to someone and gesturing.  

response 24 of 71:

Nov 14 04:12 UTC 1997

Kind of reminds me of the warning labels you see "Hot coffee is hot" or
"Batman cape does not enable wearer to fly".  A few generations ago,
accidentally spilling coffee on yourself, and claiming you didn't know it was
hot - would any judge _not_ have laughed hearing that as grounds for a
lawsuit?