response 1 of 183:

Jan 11 15:19 UTC 1995

I suppose it depends on how you define spanking.
Apparently you assume most people equate it to the physical equivilent
of a beating.  I sure didn't.  I was spanked often when I was a child
and played it up in tears.  Truth was I got hit SO lightly I'd
laugh about it later.  The question this survey fails to address
is exactly how those people define spanking.
I know a lot of people that consider a pat on the rear a spanking for a
one year old.  
I think there should be (and there ARE aren't there?) laws against
child abuse.  The question of when spanking is abuse and when spanking
is disipline is probably best defined by definitions of child
abuse.
Personally I think there are much better ways of disiplining children.

response 3 of 183:

Jan 11 16:15 UTC 1995

Just to play the devil's advocate for a moment and put this in a larger
perspective: Human parents have used spanking as a reward/punishment form
of cultural education for hundreds(more likely, thousands) of years. As a
race, we seem to be getting along. (although, one could argue that's
the reason we are such an agressive species. But that would be confusing
cause and effect without further evidence.)

response 5 of 183:

Jan 11 20:16 UTC 1995

I think it's very hard to generalize here.  For some kids, a spanking
does a lot of good.  I was spanked from time to time, and I turned out
OK.  For others, however, spanking just doesn't work.  No matter how
hard you spank kids like this, they will do whatever they plan on
doing.

I've also observed situations where kids didn't spank the kids, and
they were hellions.  These kids figured out that they could get away
with just about anything and they just went wild.

I think you just have to deal with each kid in an individual way.  I
know this is tough, but no one said parenting was easy.

response 7 of 183:

Jan 12 03:37 UTC 1995

Substituting spanking for more intelligent forms of discipline, like 
explaining why a behavior was wrong and thinking of a better way to
get the child to remember the principle behind the event, is asking
for more behavioral problems and potentially a host of emotional 
problems in general in the child's future.  On the other hand, it
can "get the child's attention" sometimes when that is an immediate
need.  
I agree with #5, that the personality and development stage of the
child is most important in the decision of how to discipline, and 
with #2, that it is highly improbable that a law could adequately
handle this issue.  Goddess knows, the child abuse laws are hard
enough to apply correctly as it is.  I knew a woman whose daughter
of 3 or so suffered bowel retention, especially on trips.  The little
girl got so bound up from not defecating that, on a trip to Disneyworld,
she bled after a bowel movement.  When her mother took her a hospital
to have her checked out they kept her away from her mother overnight,
suspecting abuse, and severely traumatized both mother and daughter.
Laws on spanking would have great potential for similar problems.

response 9 of 183:

Jan 12 10:31 UTC 1995

I never used spanking as a resource for punishment.  I have used when they
were between the ages of 2and 3 if they were currently engaged in a
particular henious practice. (Eg., the older boy repeatedly hitting 
his brother in the face.)  Furthermore, the child had to ignore my
verbal command.  I guess that both my kids might have been spanked 
twice in their lives.

Parents who resort to spanking  infants and those who spank
more than once a week are out of control.  Should they continue,
the  children may respond to nothing less than corporeal punishment.
My wifes's nephews had been thus, but through the kind efforts of
their teachers, cvilization gains a foothold where beatings did
almost nothing.

response 11 of 183:

Jan 12 23:44 UTC 1995

Like the study said, most people spank because they think it's the
right think to do.  Part of the loving relationship includes doing what you
think is best even if you don't like doing it.  (I think it's often
misguided, but I think that's generally the answer for *why* parents do
it).
 
I think spanking has two effects: humiliation and physical pain. Some
parents optimize for one or the other.  Ultra-light spanks can still have a
profound "shaming" effect.  While I'm not a fan of spanking, I think
causing shame in some way is sometimes appropriate.

response 13 of 183:

Jan 13 04:29 UTC 1995

Would you like to borrow a 14 year old for a few weeks, scg?  Not all
kids come to "attention" merely due to a parent's frown or even a
yelled warning.  Personally, getting sent to my room was great, as it
was a fun place for me, and I felt safe there.  Kids vary in their
attentiveness and in their response to external stimuli.  I think it's
very difficult to make a blanket condemnation or approval of spanking.

response 15 of 183:

Jan 13 12:04 UTC 1995

Degree is the distinguishing  characteristic here - spanking
that takes 25 minutes and results in breaks in the skin surface
is rather different from a quick, light smack on the hand that
+was+ in the process of reaching for that last fudge brownie.
  
Without the ability to distinguish/discriminate and make a
value judgement, there is not much hope.
  
I've "spanked" kids and will continue to do so, with judgement.

response 17 of 183:

Jan 14 02:33 UTC 1995

This item has been linked from agora 58 to the "Small Fry" conference,
item 61.  It seemed appropriate.

response 19 of 183:

Jan 14 14:43 UTC 1995

Who ever thinks you can reason with small children, you have more precocious
children than I have (I have 6 ranging from 11 to 20).  I have been astounded
at my inability to reason with small children and teens.  Haven't
any of you folks aske, "Why did you do that?" and gotten in return an
"I don't know." or nothing at all.  Early on I learned "Why..." is an
inappropriate question.  Little children and Teens don't really know.

That is why spanking for little children is very useful.  A bit of pain 
is universally know to be a deterant.  And with a spanking, there is a sense
that the price has been paid and life can immidiately go on in a more 
constructive vain.  Children after a certain age do understand when a parent
says you did such and such for this s reason it is dangerous or very
inappropriate for people to live together peacefully, therefore you get a swat.
 Afterward a hug and a kiss, don't do it again, and off on life.

The problem with dealing with teens is that often they have screwed up
logic which doesn't respond to adult logic.  Spanking doesn't work at all.
Unfortunately a parent has to devise a stratagy and carry it though, which
is lots of work requiring the remembering of the offence over longer periods
of time.  I long for the times of a simple swat which had a simple meaning
which could be followed with a happy normal life.


I have discussed this discussion with my kids and they tell me there are
an abundance of kids at school who are full of back talk and boldness
feeling there isn't a price to pay for violent, disruptive, rude behavior.
The principle of a price to pay is evidently learned very early.  Sure,
teens want to test the limits of the payment which requires parents to 
reenforce their commitment to consequences and answering their challenges.
There is a crisis out there of parents who reason too much and ones who 
beat their children to do physical damage (which laws apply to now).  I work
with kids every day from 4th grade to high school.  I am extremely proud
of my kids and others in our community are likewise proud and appreciative.
I think spanking can have extremely good results after years of experience.
I was a Spock baby and child (no spanking) and I didn'tlike the outcome, so
with my kids I decided to see to it that they grew up more responsible than
I did.

response 21 of 183:

Jan 14 16:26 UTC 1995

re #5:  You observed situations where kids were allowed, by their parents,
        to run wild, and you think that physical punishments will cure that?

re #11: Most people *say* they think it is the right thing to do.  But
        a high percentage of "parenting skills class" graduates, taught
        effective non-violent means of discipline, revert to spanking
        because it is easier and more satisfying.

re #15: Given that you aren't a parent, you may well spank with judgment.

re #19: You have six kids and you still believe the "I don't know"?

response 23 of 183:

Jan 14 20:34 UTC 1995

yes, and as they gain reasoning and comprehension skill, the 
spank is less and less appropriate.