response 3 of 82:

Jul 5 02:10 UTC 1993

I got my daughter music she liked playing and pointed out all the neat
clarinet playing on Van Morrion's albums ( whom she likes a lot ).  Dunno
about the results yet, but she did elect to continue clarinet into the 
second year.

response 5 of 82:

Jul 5 04:58 UTC 1993

Our daughter joined the instrument lottery at Pattengill in 5th grade,
and got a flute, though she wanted violin. She made it through 5th grade
blowing the flute and announced that she was quitting. We never forced
her to practice - I'm not entirely sure that practice would really make
a big difference - so it has been up to her. I have helped, however, by
now and then showing her a little (like, a half note is twice as long as
a quarter note), which appears to help. This summer the school system
offered a couple of weeks of band practice, so she borrowed the school
flute, and she goes off (9-10 am) to morning practice. We'd like her to
continue, but are applying almost no pressure - just encouragement. 
(Unfortunately, neither of us an play an instrument.)

So, my recommendations are to stay "loose", offer encouragement, listen
to any performances she offers you, applaud, and grit your teeth when
necessary.

response 7 of 82:

Jul 5 05:20 UTC 1993

Friends sometime do. I have a son who also grew up in an instrumentless
family but who suddenly, at age ca. 17, met people that were into banjos.
He not only learned the banjo - "frailing", no less - but plays for
square and other dancing, etc, as a side line. Its nice that not all
talents arise in childhood.

response 9 of 82:

Jul 5 07:30 UTC 1993

First off, you mentioned a friend who is raising 3 talented musicians and
you're wondering how she did it. I believe that alot of people are born
with a talent for music. The basic instinct is there and they will find it.
So she may not have had to do anything "right", she just may have gotten
lucky.

Second, I think one of your Mom's biggest mistakes was to force you away
from what *you* wanted to play, and making you plan the written pieces.
Someone learning to play should be allowed to explore the sounds that please
them, not the instructor.

Third, and this is highly subjective from my own experience, don't force it
on the student. I *hated* music class because it was something that didn't
interest me at the time but I was forced to take it. My sister had a guitar
and I plinked on it once or twice, but I was so turned off by the school
system's approach that I was never interested. Later, when I was 22, I decided
to try to learn guitar. I've been playing for 12 years now, but there are
people who have learned to play better than me in 3. I believe that if I
had been exposed to it at a much younger age, I would probably be alot better.

If you make it a chore, something he *has* to do, the child will be turned
off. Here's an idea: Play him alot of different music, solos of as many
different instruments until you find one that grabs his interest. If you
can find music that really seems to capture the child and convince him
that he can learn to make music like the music that interests him, then he
will *want* to learn to play.

response 11 of 82:

Jul 5 11:37 UTC 1993

My own experience (as a former child, not as a parent):  I hated practicing
because (I think) I couldn't see that it mattered whether I practiced or
not.  My teachers failed to get through to me what effective practicing
is (how & why) - for which I'm doubtless as much to blame as they are, since
at least sometimes they *said* the right things.

I think the biggest factor was that the only reinforcement was a half-hour-
a-week formal lesson.  I was never playing regularly for an audience of any
kind.

At 15 I picked up a guitar, started teaching myself (mostly), and made
**extremely** slow progress.  At 19 or 20 I found myself in a very, very
informal weekly performance (sort of) situation - and my ability took
off.  There were other reasons, too, but the fact is that for me knowing
that people are going to hear me make mistakes is the single most important
factor determining whether I practice at all and whether I really practice
or just go through the motions.

I doubt that the traditional parents-sit-all-their-friends-down-to-listen
approach would do much for this; but if kids are playing for people
*they* want to impress, it's likely to help.  For many kids, anyway.

A good teacher *really* makes a lot of difference, too.  The cases I know
of where kids grew up excelling at piano (some of my cousins and one
cousin's kids), the teachers were expensive but worth it.  I believe that
the parent was required to be present at the lessons and involved in the
practicing as daily coach; my impression is that the teacher put a lot
of effort into training the parent to be an effective coach.  If your
child shows talent & musical interest to make thoughts of becoming a
professional musician a possibility, this probably makes sense.  (We're
talking about fairly young kids here, for the most part, I think.)

response 13 of 82:

Jul 5 15:09 UTC 1993

Kids, bright kids, see through manipulative behavior pretty easily
so I'd pretty much avoid anything along those lines.  Once you've
established yourself as dishonest you'll rightfully lose your child's
respect.  And it really does happen in small increments over time.

From what I've heard of the Suzuki method it sounds pretty positive.
Ideally, the child is very young and both a parent and the child 
take lessons together, both learning the instrument from scratch.
It is something they share.  They both struggle and make mistakes, 
work through the need to practice, and experience the pride of
progress - together.  Some lessons are taken jointly and some privately.
But the absolute bottom line is that the experience builds self-esteem
first and a good musician might follow.

response 15 of 82:

Jul 5 20:07 UTC 1993

What do you find distateful about some degree of up-front manupulation?
Getting someone to do something "because" rather than "just for the
sake of" is manipulation. At least there is no disguise, which is
possibly what your objection is.

response 17 of 82:

Jul 6 12:55 UTC 1993

I picked up a one of thoes cheap electronic pianos that makes 101
different sounds.  I also have a couple of nice harmonicas my dad
gave me as a kid.  I let our kids, 2.75 & 4, play with these every
now and then.  They love it and we don't mind the "music" every
now and then.
My wife, a preschool for many years, was surprised to find that
the kids who were taking the Suzuki classes really loved what
they were donig!  Would be interesting to hear about this method
to find out why it appeals to children.

response 19 of 82:

Jul 7 01:09 UTC 1993

I'm a serious amateur musician -- piano and harpsichord.  I used to do
the violin and still like to noodle around on the recorder occasionally.
Nowadays I play mainly for my own and (hopefully) the rest of the
household's enjoyment, but over the years I've done a fair amount of
ensemble playing, accompanying, and solo public performing.  My musical
training started around the age of four and I've managed to sustain my
interest, so perhaps my experiences will provide some insights.

My childhood home was full of music -- my mother played piano, we had
an extensive classical record collection that got played a lot, there
was a lot of radio listening.  I think the musical atmosphere was
an important factor.

I was encouraged to noodle around on the keyboard from the age of three.
My earliest experience with the piano was that it was a "fun" thing to
do.  That stuck.

Formal lessons started at age four or five.  Though my mother would get
after me to learn my assignments, I was *never* discouraged from playing
around on the keyboard, make up tunes, that kind of thing.

During my late childhood and early adolescent years (ages 10-13, maybe),
I tended to neglect practicing, my mother would get upset about that and
nag, I'd resist -- the usual rebellious behavior that sets in at that
age, I suppose.  Perhaps I'd have made more progress if she'd not made it
into a contest of wills, not set things up so that I could "win" by
rebelling.  Or maybe the push was what I needed to keep me involved at
all during a critical period.  Or maybe that didn't make any difference.
Dunno.  (Real insightful, eh?)

In high school I made friends who were also into music, got involved with
the school orchestra and other musical activities, and my interest became
self-sustaining -- I didn't require the parental "stick" anymore.

I do think that my early positive experiences with instrument-playing
were of crucial importance in sustaining my interest in later years.  I
*knew* it could be fun; I'd experienced it that way at the beginning.
The musical atmosphere in the home was also important.

People are dealt different amounts of musical talent when they're
conceived, and there's nothing they can do about it -- I happen to
believe that too.  But I think that lots of people, with a broad range of
that particular commodity, can develop the capacity to enjoy making
music and impart enjoyment to others, if the environment is right.

response 21 of 82:

Jul 7 12:25 UTC 1993

So, how much do you want to pay me to take that dust collector off your hands,
Rane?

response 23 of 82:

Jul 9 05:33 UTC 1993

My musical experience is similar to Remmers.
In some ways.

I grew up around music.  My mom played piano (adequately), and guitar,
my sister played cello, we sang around the paino or guitar, There was
a lot of music on the radio or record player all the time - classical
, folk, big band, some jazz, pop, show tunes... Mom was a big Pete Seeger
fan who became one of my early idols.

I was always encouraged to sing and make music.  Mom says I ran around
singing musicals at disgustingly cheerful high pitched tones early in
the morning... wonder how I survived? ;-)  
My parents LET me take piano a lot but I quit a lot too.  It tended to
bore me the way it was taught (lots of emphasis on playing stupid
songs I didn't want to learn).  But it was always my decision.
I rented a sax and took sax in 5th grade, when I got to
6th grade I got into choral music in a big way and never looked back.
Though I still play lots of instruments adequately.

I think the biggest factors in my love of music are-
encouragement
support
parents who MADE music with me
exposure to a wide variety of music (and my parents actually listened to
        my music too as I discovered things like the Beatles etc).

I can see how talent (a tricky concept) can certainly factor into
how frustrating it is to learn an instrument but I have
worked with a lot of people musically who honestly didn't think
they could sing - I've had very good success teaching them by starting
with BREAKING DOWN the years of evil teachers that said "You sing
as quietly as possible ok?" or "I think you should find something
other than music for a hobby." etc.  That makes me FURIOUS!
There are very very few people who are genuinly tone deaf.
Most people CAN enjoy making music at least for fun.

The point about finding a good teacher is excellent too!
A music teacher for a child should be one they are comfortable
working with, one who can teach them but even more important in the
beginning- one who makes the music fun.  (that is true for adults too!
I always remind people that just like anything- you are a consumer
with a voice teacher, if they aren't helping you- find another teacher!

Also- one last important thing-  get them a decent instrument.
When a child is very young- babies for example, or up to about 2-3,
they can enjoy banging on almost anything - so at that stage a
really cheap plastic guitar or uke or kitchen pan or whatever
is probably fine.  But when they begin to show an interest
in actually trying to sit down and learn get a decent instrument.
That doesn't mean you need to spend a lot of money.
Go someplace like Elderly Instruments in lansing where reliable
salespeople can help you find something within your budget.
A bad isntrument makes learning very frustrating.

ok... I've rambled on enough... Hope that helps some Valerie.