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Grex > Oldmusic > #131: More on the ethics of P2P file sharing (yeah, another "Napster" item) | |
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jaklumen
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More on the ethics of P2P file sharing (yeah, another "Napster" item)
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Dec 12 05:56 UTC 2002 |
Moving away from the usual webpasting and news sharing:
What exactly is moving the explosion of Internet piracy?
Is it people who are poor, and more importantly, can't afford current
CD prices?
Is it mostly teens with too much free time on their hands? If I
understand correctly, that's the malleable market-- teens tastes
fluctuate wildly with the times, and so the music business aims at this
market? After all, older people's tastes in general don't seem to
change much.
Is it because people would prefer to collect hit songs than complete
albums?
Does internet piracy cut into music sales, or does it encourage
purchasing of new music?
On that note, are new acts gaining exposure on file sharing networks?
I'm not sure about KaZaA, but I know Grokster promotes new acts on
their web site. Or are users just collecting known hits?
How *does* copyright law extend to P2P file sharing?
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| 23 responses total. |
anderyn
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response 1 of 23:
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Dec 12 13:19 UTC 2002 |
Hmmm. All very good questions. I know that I download songs (from legal sites,
although I have friends who've gotten songs from P2P) because I want to hear
them but I don't feel confident buying the album -- or the album isn't
available anymore or yet... For example, I have several songs downloaded from
Pegasus Music's free website of songs from their upcoming albums. Didn't stop
me from buying the albums as soon as they became available (I have one that
just came out yesterday in my hot little hands, in fact). It just gave me a
taste that made me WANT to buy the album even more. In other cases, I might
try to find a song because I want THAT song, but I don't want to buy a whole
album (case in point -- I wanted a copy of "It's Raining Men" but I couldn't
find an 80s anthology that had it nor did any of my friends have a copy). But
I'm middle-aged, so I'm probably not the person to answer this item. I'll see
if I can get my son and/or his best friend to tell me why they frequent the
P2P sites and download far too much music. :-)
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scott
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response 2 of 23:
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Dec 12 13:59 UTC 2002 |
Easy, new CDs are often priced up to $18.99 and a lot of them suck. Peopele
would rather download something old much cheaper, even if they end up not
liking it. It such to pay a bunch of money for a CD when you only want the
single.
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mynxcat
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response 3 of 23:
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Dec 12 16:39 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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anderyn
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response 4 of 23:
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Dec 13 00:10 UTC 2002 |
I don't know about that -- most of the CDs I buy have more good songs than
bad on them, but then again, I'm not buying pop music.
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mynxcat
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response 5 of 23:
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Dec 13 04:15 UTC 2002 |
This response has been erased.
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jaklumen
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response 6 of 23:
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Dec 13 09:10 UTC 2002 |
I ask the question because die-hard fans of artists *don't* generally
get the "Greatest Hits" albums like some other passers-by; they more
often have the entire recordings.
-But- are they in the majority, or would far more people rather pick
and choose hit songs from various artists? On the one side, you
collect the entirety of an artist's work; on the other side, you rip
and burn a more eclectic mix.
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mcnally
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response 7 of 23:
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Dec 13 09:14 UTC 2002 |
You know I hear the "I don't want to pay for a whole album with only two
good tracks" complaint often enough but I can't figure out whether the
people complaining are just buying music that's very different from what
I listen to or whether it's my personal tastes in music but I encounter
the problem pretty rarely -- probably on fewer than one disc in eight
among those discs I buy on impulse (and fewer still on discs which aren't
impulse buys.) Is the quality-to-filler ratio that much higher in
whatever popular musical marketing niche people are favoring these days
or is there something else which explains why other people find this to
be a widespread problem when I find it to be an occasional disappointment?
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mcnally
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response 8 of 23:
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Dec 13 09:18 UTC 2002 |
re #6: ugh. "Greatest Hits" collections are usually nasty. Most of the
time I'd much rather have a regular album, even with bands whose work I
don't know.
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jaklumen
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response 9 of 23:
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Dec 13 09:53 UTC 2002 |
resp:7 Believe it or not, I think there has been discussion on this.
I think part of it might indeed lie with the fact that you're listening
to vastly different music than the average teenager/young adult is
(actually, I think that breaks down to teenager and women 18-35). The
notion has been put forward that the music business is gasping for new
talent in this market. Current pop artists apparently aren't producing
entire recordings that hold their audience's attention.
Even in the hit factory decade of the 80's, there was one album churned
out where every song hit #1: Huey Lewis and the News's "Sports." We
have nothing like that today.
Maybe rampant consumerism has burnt out the music business-- they
aren't paying enough attention to production quality.
My fall to piracy is for very different reasons. I'm poor, and much of
the music I listen to is reasonably old. I generally look for hits
that are a little more difficult to find right away, and I don't always
have patience in trying to find compilations. When I do have money, I
do admit that it's worth buying the remaining material in some artist's
album, but right now, I'm too lazy and too broke to do it. On that
note, current CD prices don't help. Oh, and by the way, I rarely
pirate for nostalgia much: many of these old hits are barely on the
periphery of my memory.
I very much suspect the music piracy problem is firmly in the
mainstream; therefore, I'm willing to bet that those who buy outside of
it don't quite understand what the fuss is about, or more specifically,
don't pirate.
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mcnally
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response 10 of 23:
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Dec 13 10:33 UTC 2002 |
I've never used P2P software but the feature which might one day lead me
to start is the potential for access to material that's out of print and
nearly impossible to obtain legally. There are several genres I collect
where work from even the foremost artists in the field is out of print
and essentially unavailable. The work that *is* available is largely
released on anthologies which have substantial overlap between collections
so between a dozen collections I might wind up with five or six copies of
one track and yet be unable to find copies of many others. Joining a P2P
network with others who share my tastes would be a huge help in tracking
down material I haven't otherwise been able to find.
I'd love to be able to buy this stuff from the record companies which own
the rights but in most cases either the rights-holder is out of the record
business or the rights belong to some tiny portion of a huge conglomerate
with more profitable things to do than cater to my personal tastes.
I can tell that I'm going to be SOL if I have to count on waiting for the
market to provide what I want.
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anderyn
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response 11 of 23:
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Dec 13 12:56 UTC 2002 |
It's very true that my particular tastes in music are definitely
non-mainstream and that I'm not in the target range for the music business.
I do buy some mainstream (older) acts at times (Rick Springfield, Blue Oyster
Cult, Moody Blues... all of whom had new albums out in the last two years)
but mostly what I buy is firmly in the folk or world camp. I will branch out
into other things if I hear them and I like them, but I'd say that I
definitely don't fit any profiles --- I love to fill in those cards that come
in CDs where they ask you your name, your address, and why you bought the
record, and then what the last three CDs you bought were and what the
magazines/radio stations you listen to are -- it probably drives them crazy.
"Let's see here, a 46 year old woman who reads, um, 'Time, Cosmopolitan, and
Analog'. The last three CDs she bought, not counting this one, were 'Shrek
soundtrack, Fairport Convention, and Ilgi' WTF?!" I love screwing with their
demographics, and the best part is that I never have to lie.
It's also true that most of the music I'm desperately wanting to get copies
of AND would be willing to pir-ate, if I had to, is all out of print. I have
some tapes of filk music that I'd LOVE to get digital copies of, but it's not
going to happen. I know that there are albums of, say, Archie Fisher out there
that were released in the 1960s in England that aren't coming out on CD and
I don't even know who might have a copy (well, obviously, people in England,
but I don't know any! Grin) of the original, so I'd be more than happy to do
some pirating of that.
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dbratman
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response 12 of 23:
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Dec 13 20:37 UTC 2002 |
On the subject of albums with only one or two good tracks: I've read in
histories of pop that that's one of the things the Beatles changed.
Prior to that time, most bands would put only one or two good songs on
each of their numerous albums, and anyone wanting a listenable album
was obliged to wait for the Greatest Hits. After the Beatles came
along, life on pop and rock albums was very different for a good long
time, but maybe it's changing back.
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jaklumen
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response 13 of 23:
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Dec 14 05:06 UTC 2002 |
Well, it sounds like music that's out of print or difficult to access
certainly is a factor.
I doubt I would have gotten a copy of Jazzy Redd's "I Am A Dope Fiend"
unless I had pirated it.
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tpryan
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response 14 of 23:
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Dec 24 18:26 UTC 2002 |
Let's see... extended soundtrack to Fellowship of The Ring CD
at $24.99, not discounted or 4 DVD set of Fellowship of The Ring for
$24.99, on sale?
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jor
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response 15 of 23:
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Dec 24 21:33 UTC 2002 |
Yes, it was common for vinyl LP's in the early 60's,
to be blatantly fleshed out with crap filler,
covers/copies of very commonly recorded
stuff (Route 66, Hounddog, I dunno, stuff
everybody knew). It was *blatant*.
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jaklumen
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response 16 of 23:
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Dec 24 22:56 UTC 2002 |
resp:14 Ouch.
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tpryan
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response 17 of 23:
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Dec 26 17:34 UTC 2002 |
Even Motown LPs of the 60;s where very much 'the two hit
songs, the two b-sides and 8 remakes of other Motown artists hits'.
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mcnally
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response 18 of 23:
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Dec 26 18:00 UTC 2002 |
re #17: 60s soul really wasn't an album-oriented genre so that's
really not surprising.
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orinoco
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response 19 of 23:
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Dec 28 20:44 UTC 2002 |
Were any genres really that album-oriented in the early 60s?
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mcnally
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response 20 of 23:
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Dec 28 21:39 UTC 2002 |
I'm not aware of any, though that's hardly conclusive..
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cyklone
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response 21 of 23:
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Dec 28 23:30 UTC 2002 |
Miles Davis, John Coltrane and some other jazz guys are the only ones I
can think of. And I'm not absolutely sure on the dates.
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krj
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response 22 of 23:
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Dec 29 06:02 UTC 2002 |
Oh sure, lots of MOR stuff, like the Phase 4 Stereo albums my dad had
when I was growing up -- like an album full of suites of movie soundtrack
tunes, or an album of German beer drinking songs. Mitch Miller was
likely album oriented, too, though I can't say for sure. And then there
was the classical field, and jazz as was earlier mentioned.
When were Frank Sinatra's comeback albums, after his teeny-bop years?
1950s, I think.
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dbratman
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response 23 of 23:
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Dec 29 06:43 UTC 2002 |
My parents had in those days two types of albums that weren't filler:
classical and show tunes.
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