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raven
The great tube amp controversy Mark Unseen   Jun 13 04:44 UTC 1996

        This is the item to discuss the merits of tube amps v.s. solid
state amps in both home audio and as musical instrument amps.  It is said
that tube amps have a warmer sound which certainly sounds true to my ears.
On the technical side tube amps apparently produce even multiple overtones
when they harmonicaly distort which sound less harsh to the ears than the
odd multiple overtones produced by solid state amps.
        Feel free to discuss experiences you have had with amps, additional
technical information, or anything else relating to the tube amp controversy.
13 responses total.
scott
response 1 of 13: Mark Unseen   Jun 13 11:14 UTC 1996

Wow, where to start?  Certainly not now, since I have to finish breakfast and
get to work on time.  :)

However, I'll likely have a decent amount to say here soon.
raven
response 2 of 13: Mark Unseen   Jun 16 22:00 UTC 1996

        Now I have a problem, the power tubes on my Peavy 60 watt guitar
amp are glowing blue.  I have been told this is bad.  Should I replace
them immediatly, or can I wait?  What will happen if Idon't replace
the tubes?  And last (shudder) how much are 2 6L6 tubes?  Thanks in
advance for answering my questions.
scott
response 3 of 13: Mark Unseen   Jun 16 22:16 UTC 1996

You don't need to replace blue-glowing tubes until they burn out prematurely.
(heh).

Sounds like your biasing isn't doing its job!  That's fairly easy for a tech
to diagnose and fix, though, unless the bias tap on the power transformer
died.  Much more likely is that a bias resistor or diode or maybe the filter
capacitor died.  Replacing the tubes won't help, since the bad bias will screw
replacements just as easily.  BTW, a small amount of blue in there is normal,
but any change you've noticed is trouble that needs to be fixed soon.

I've got a great source for tubes, probably $25 or so a pair?  I think that
is the price of the Russkie made Sovtek 6L6 tubes, which are the Fender OEM
variety.


No big surprise, I'm somebody who know a bit about tubes.  ;)

My own guitar amp is a 70's silver face Fender Princeton Reverb, a real sweet
little amp.  I've also got an old 50 watt DuKane chassis I turned into a cross
between a Fender Bassman and a Marshall 50 watt head.  I don't use that one
much, though.

For clean playing, solid state is fine.  I'm not a real snob about that, and
for my tube amp I have a solid state distortion pedal (a Boss "Blues Driver"),
so I'm not relying on tube distortion at all.  Go figure.  ;)  (It's about
doing stuff at a reasonable volume).

I think the main reason I use a tube amp is that I've had it for years and
I'm completely used to it.  Plus, tube amps, at least the older ones, are just
a bit easier to modify for various reasons.  At one point I was playing with
the idea of putting a Deluxe-type inverter stage in my Princeton, but it
didn't seem to improve anything (more gain, but I didn't need that).  Right
now the only change is a tweak to the tone circuit to provide more mids, and
a Peavy Scorpion speaker to replace the previous one (which was some kind of
Music Man OEM).

For bass, solid state is much more useful for EQ.  I've got a little bass
preamp I built with op-amps, a pretty sophisticated EQ for bass.  Tube amps
can be useful because they tend to handle transients better; for bass that
quite often improves the sound at volumes near the amp's power limit.
The classic Ampeg SVT sounds *really* good, mainly because of how well it does
transient attacks.  I've figured out that bass really needs an amplifier rated
for about 3 times what you can scrape by with, since the difference is better
transient response which for bass is *not* subtle.
omni
response 4 of 13: Mark Unseen   Jun 17 05:10 UTC 1996

 6L6 tubes can be had at Purchase Radio on Hoover. They are quite common, so
they shouldn't cost a lot.
rcurl
response 5 of 13: Mark Unseen   Jun 17 07:03 UTC 1996

A blue glow means they are gassy. They don't make 6L6s like they used to. 
This item reminds me of my "ultimate" Hi Fi - that I designed and built
in ca. 1954 - push-pull triodes all the way. They don't make amplifiers
like that any more  8^}
raven
response 6 of 13: Mark Unseen   Jun 17 09:53 UTC 1996

        re everybody:  Thanks for all your help.  I also got e-mail from
usenet saying that it could be a bad power transformer supplying too
much voltage to the tubes.  Could this be true?  I haven't had time to
see if their is a change in the operation of the amp as I have only played
it once, and it's still on layaway at Oz's music.  Does anyone know any
good/cheap techies who work on tube amps?
scott
response 7 of 13: Mark Unseen   Jun 17 11:21 UTC 1996

I would, I usually don't have time.  If it is under control of a music store,
can't you get them to fix it?

Re: 4 - Getting a good matched pair is essential.  I don't know if Purchase
does that, or what brands they sell.  Chinese tubes are pretty common, but
are generally frowned upon for their mortality rate.

Re: 5 - "Push-Pull"?  You are right, nobody makes those any more.  Last I
heard, single ended triodes were the trendy thing.  With directly
heated cathodes.  Western Electric 300B triodes.  The more primitive, the
better.

The power tubes have two main supplies... the B+ supply, which is a positive
300-600 volts on the plates, and a bias supply, which is a negative 40-70
volts on the grids to keep things in balance.  If the bias supply drops (or
the B+ increases), then too much current flows thru the tube when it is just
supposed to be idling.  This is because the tubes in a pair are assigned half
the load each... one handles positive, one handles negative.  So one tubes
is active, the other nearly shut off, until the waveform crosses the zero
voltage line and the tubes swap roles.  If the bias doesn't keep the "off"
tube at its cutoff point, then the tube passes DC and ends up running too hot.
Sometimes *way* too hot.  I'd find it hard to believe that you are getting
too much B+, though, since that is a hard thing to do even on purpose.
rcurl
response 8 of 13: Mark Unseen   Jun 17 19:49 UTC 1996

The B+ could be regulated, and that has gone bad. 
scott
response 9 of 13: Mark Unseen   Jun 17 21:47 UTC 1996

Regulation circuit might be the problem, if Peavy wasn't such a cheapskate
company.  I've *never* heard of a Peavy with B+ regulation, and few if any
guitar amps by any other manufacturers.
jor
response 10 of 13: Mark Unseen   Jun 28 20:19 UTC 1996

you guys ever get done fussing with your amps and actually play?
(and if so do you need a drummer?)
scott
response 11 of 13: Mark Unseen   Jun 28 22:40 UTC 1996

I don't have time to fuss with the electronics, so I just play.  I used to
do both.  :)

Know anybody who wants to try those King Crimson interlocking guitar parts
with another guitarist (to wit, me).
raven
response 12 of 13: Mark Unseen   Jun 29 04:58 UTC 1996

        I mainly just play, I'm just hoping the blue tubes don't burn out on
me. 
scott
response 13 of 13: Mark Unseen   Jun 29 12:34 UTC 1996

I might be able to look at your amp, raven.  Looks like a hardware vendor may
have screwed the schedule on my current project at work.  :/
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