Agenda Item for June 13 Board Meeting

Jun 9 14:25 UTC 2000

        This is where we can put agenda items for the June 13 Board
meeting.
        I'll start.

        Call to order.

        Approve agenda.
        
        Set time and place of next meeting.
        
        President's report.

        Treasurer's report.

        Discussion of System downtime, rebuild, and related issues.

response 2 of 45:

Jun 9 15:30 UTC 2000

I'll do my best to try to get there.

response 4 of 45:

Jun 10 04:27 UTC 2000

My house.  Email for directions.

response 6 of 45:

Jun 11 05:47 UTC 2000

I vote "no".
If for no other reason than preventing users from accusing the BoD of making
"underhanded" decisions while M-Net is down.

response 8 of 45:

Jun 11 14:04 UTC 2000

I think that is fair.

response 10 of 45:

Jun 11 15:23 UTC 2000

Perhaps at some point in time, the bylaws should be amended to allow for
policy discussions to occur on Grex in this conference in the event of a major
m-net outage.

response 12 of 45:

Jun 11 16:33 UTC 2000

   Allow me to offer a dissenting viewpoint on refunds.  M-Net is not
a for-profit entity with a product.  It is a tiny non-profit, eeking
out an existence trying to offer services to many, with incredibly
meager funding.  For M-Net to offer refunds because it was down means
that there is a mindset here akin to the pay-for-services model, and
I find that inconsistent with the reality of M-Net.

   No one should ever give money to a system like M-Net (or Grex) and
*expect* uptime, etc.  These systems are't professionally run, even
though professionals run both systems, and overall DO manage near
commercial uptimes as of late.  But when things get bad, it is often
the case that real world constraints on the staff are going to impose
time delays that translate into increased down time for the system.
Thats just life.  None of the staff on either system want that extra
time but sometimes that can't be avoided.

   In this particular case for M-Net, the machine was vandalized, the
hardware wasn't simply across town, it wasn't available 24 hours as it
was at the New Center, and the decision was made to upgrade the hardware
during this time.  This has been an awful time for M-Net, very likely
the worst since the Altos died 7 years ago, compounded with the extra
effort needed to switch to new hardware plus a new op system.  The
staff on M-Net deserve a hearty round of applause for dealing with all
this.  It takes time however, and the disaster in front of them could
not have been much worse.

   There may have been a time in the past when M-Net offered a rebate
on downtime but that was then and this is now: M-Net doesn't have the
money to offer this, not really--yes there is some money in the bank
now, but I'd sure like to see that remain in the bank rather than chip
away at it offering a two-week rebate (or whatever it is).  M-Net has
needed to move away from the pay-for-service model for quite some time.
It doesn't have to continue that model, especially now.

response 14 of 45:

Jun 11 17:00 UTC 2000

While it's true, that M-Net is indeed a non-profit company and does not
guarantee any level of uptime, there is still an expectation of service.

People (generally) don't buy memberships and patronships because they believe
that $5 and $10 specifically is the "perfect donation". If people were
"donating" purely for the warm fuzzy feeling they got, we'd have significantly
more obscure donations. 

People can yammer on about how M-Net is not a "pay-for-service" system until
their fingers are numb. The simple fact is that "member" and "patron" are
different levels of access that are purchased. 

response 16 of 45:

Jun 11 17:57 UTC 2000

There's no point in offering service (paid or otherwise) if you aren't
going to take it seriously, and if your users can't rely on you.

I'm embarrassed that we've been down so long.  It's bad for our reputation.
It shouldn't have happened, because we should have had a plan for responding
to problems in Livonia more efficiently than we did.  We're installing a new
machine, which will be more reliable and more secure, and we'll work together,
Board and Staff, to try to prevent this from happening in the future.  We want
our users to trust us, even though we hope that they also realize that we're
all volunteers with "real" jobs as well.

Part of that trust is dealing fairly and reasonably with our users.  That
includes pro-rated refunds for anyone who absolutely insists, though
extensions are better.  I don't ever want to see M-Net tell one of its
users "Tough shit; we're a small non-profit, so we won't try to make
things right for you."  But I personally think that extensions are both
fair and reasonable, and will hopefully be sufficient for most people.

response 18 of 45:

Jun 11 19:03 UTC 2000

  <HUGS>

response 20 of 45:

Jun 11 20:40 UTC 2000

that was not verry nise, joey.

response 22 of 45:

Jun 11 20:54 UTC 2000

The point, Ken, is that we want to go out of our way to provide good service
to our users.  It doesn't matter whether we think we're "fee-for-service" or
not.  What matters is that our users don't feel like we've ripped them off,
justifiably or no.

response 24 of 45:

Jun 11 21:24 UTC 2000

People may be discussing it here, but they're trying to get it back up
elsewhere.  There have been some problems.  I'd anticipate around another week
before it's back up and usable.  I wish I could give you better news, but I
don't want to set expectations too high.