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| Author |
Message |
rcurl
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iMac
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Aug 27 00:39 UTC 1998 |
Questons and discussion about the iMac.
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| 101 responses total. |
rcurl
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response 1 of 101:
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Aug 27 00:43 UTC 1998 |
How does one use the iMac with "old" peripherals, such as serial printers,
serial/Appletalk networks (to "old" Macs), and SCSI devices? It does not
have ports for these, but instead the new USB port.
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scott
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response 2 of 101:
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Aug 27 10:51 UTC 1998 |
My latest "MacMall" catalog (which still gets sent to me from a single
purchase 3 years ago) has a couple odd USB items, including a serial port
cable and a parallel port cable for running legacy devices.
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rcurl
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response 3 of 101:
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Aug 27 16:12 UTC 1998 |
"legacy devices"? meaning, stuff you aren't willing to throw out? I saw
some peripheral "translators" from other manufacturers that implied that
they would interface "old" serial devices, but nothing about SCSI or AppleTalk
compatibility. Also, the MacMall catalog does not give very specific
information about uConnect and EtherMac iPrint - e.g., how many ports do
they provide?
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rcurl
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response 4 of 101:
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Aug 27 20:00 UTC 1998 |
I just realized that the iMac does not have a floppy drive! The only plug-in
offered by MacMall is the Imation SuperDisk (which handles 3.5" HD disks
as well as 120MB proprietary disks (not ZIPS, and much more expensive).
The iMac appears to be primarily an internet machine, even with all of that
G3 computing power.
The iMac must be reviewed thoroughly somewhere on the web - any suggestions?
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omni
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response 5 of 101:
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Aug 28 12:55 UTC 1998 |
Check out some of the Mac publications, like MacUser, and MacComputing.
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rcurl
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response 6 of 101:
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Aug 28 16:00 UTC 1998 |
I did a search in AltaVista on <iMac +review> and got the straight dope on
http://www.enproindia.com/macguide/imac.html
It is as I concluded. I agree with the reviewer that it would be a *computer*
too if some features were dropped and standard ports and a floppy drive were
added. As it is, you have to spend a great deal more for peripherals and
USB adapters to use it as a *computer* with most existing devices.
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rcurl
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response 7 of 101:
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Aug 29 17:36 UTC 1998 |
Apparently someone called Newer Technology is bringout a USB to floppy
drive with two DMA serial ports - but not yet available.
After some costing, it appears cheaper to get an iMac plus the adapters
for older peripherals (and floppy) than to buy an equivalent G3 desktop
with separate monitor. Therefore the iMac still 'lives' as a potential
student's machine.
The iMac has a 10/100 BASE-T Ethernet port. Our current desktop has both
AAUI and 10 BASE-T Ethernet ports. Therefore, at least initially, the
latter could be used as the "floppy" for the former. But I don't know
anything about 10 BASE-T hardware and cabling. What would be required
to network the two machines via their Ethernet ports (simplest and most
economic - and no other machines on the network)?
I guess I should also ask if this would work in loading software to the
iMac from applications on many diskettes - I'm not sure how it would work
when the installer calls for "Disk x".
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scg
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response 8 of 101:
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Aug 29 17:57 UTC 1998 |
You would need an ethernet cross over cable. You can make this yourself from
whatever length you need of cat 5 4 pair UTP cable, and two RJ45 plugs. For
more than two computers, you would need a 10 base T hub, which would be around
$30.
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rcurl
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response 9 of 101:
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Aug 29 23:06 UTC 1998 |
Just plug the two computers together? What would the cross-over cable
wiring be? What does "cat 5" and "UTP" mean? And....would this provide
simple software installation across the net (and maybe even printing
to a serial printer)? [I do understand I would not be able to use this
to print to an AppleTalk printer, as a choice must be made between
AppleTalk and Ethernet.]
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rcurl
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response 10 of 101:
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Aug 30 02:09 UTC 1998 |
Ah hah! I have found 10Base-T cables for less than I can make them (Roger's
Systems Specialist). There are the ordinary cables and there are "crossover
pier to pier" cables, which I what I guess you mean. Is "crossover" like
a RS-232 null modem? I presume the ordinary cables are 'data' cables, with
all wires connected by the same numbers at each end. So, do 'crossovers'
flip some of the pairs? I would need a crossover longer than 25 feet, so
can I use an ordinary cable and a crossover cable connected by a RJ-45
modular coupler (I ask because I have seen RJ-11/12 modular couplers
that are "data", by the numbers, or "straight through". [One is called
simplex and the other duplex, but I can't remember which is which.]
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scg
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response 11 of 101:
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Aug 30 04:39 UTC 1998 |
Ordinary cables are straight through. Crossover cables flip a couple of the
pairs (I have the pinout somewhere, if you want it, but I think it's at work
so it will have to wait until Monday). Yes, you can combine a straight
through cable and a crosover cable to get a crossover. You can also combine
two crossover cables to get a straight through (yes, I've had to do that.
Don't ask).
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scg
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response 12 of 101:
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Aug 30 04:44 UTC 1998 |
Oh, and to follow up on #9, UTP means unshielded twisted pair. UTP cables
come in a few different categories, I think numbered from one through at least
5. In general, cat 3 is the low grade stuff that you can use for phone lines
over short distances, while Cat 5 is the good stuff that gets used for
ethernet, T1, etc. Cat 5 costs more than Cat 3.
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scott
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response 13 of 101:
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Aug 30 12:41 UTC 1998 |
Category 3 is good enough for Ethernet 10 base T, but Cat(egory) 5 is what
is being installed mostly because it will handle the 100 Mb protocols.
"Pier to Pier" networking? ;)
Did you know that "BNC" (the coax connector used in 10 base 2) means "British
Naval Connector"?
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omni
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response 14 of 101:
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Aug 30 13:55 UTC 1998 |
Rane, did you buy an iMac?
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scott
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response 15 of 101:
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Aug 30 14:19 UTC 1998 |
If the iMac does take off, I predict a fair number of (relatively) inexpensive
"hook up your legacy stuff here" peripherals to be made by the third-party
companies.
The SuperDisk is about the same price per Mb as the Zip disk. Both are still
overpriced for the media.
I'd guess that the iMac is (once again) a bit ahead of its time. With cheap
peripherals still not available, the early users are going to have some extra
expense and trouble getting real work done (as usual with any technology),
but long term... maybe you have your house wired for networking all the PCs
together, and a master print server unit that runs the printer, reads/writes
removable media, and connects your house to the Internet, and then all the
kids have an iMac in their rooms. From that standpoint, the lack of
peripheral makes sense. Sure, it would be nice to have the floppy right on
the machine, but then you don't have an ice-maker and water tap in every room,
do you? I use removable media maybe once a week, so walkign down to the home
network toaster to do it wouldn't be a big deal.
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scg
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response 16 of 101:
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Aug 30 16:15 UTC 1998 |
I don't remember the last time I used a floppy disk for anything other than
an emergency boot disk on a system that wouldn't boot on its own.
What does the iMac do if its boot disk gets screwed up?
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scott
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response 17 of 101:
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Aug 30 17:04 UTC 1998 |
What does Grex do, for that matter? Probably a ROM monitor that can read from
a CD-ROM, just like Grex.
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rcurl
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response 18 of 101:
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Aug 30 18:20 UTC 1998 |
The iMac has a built in 24X CD-ROM drive.
I don't have an iMac but am considering getting one for my daughter's
birthday. She needs her own computer for school work. The iMac, even with
having to buy peripheral interfaces, is cheaper *and uses less desk space*
than a desktop CPU plus separate monitor and would be more portable if
she took it off to college. Students exchange lots of information on
floppies, and even hand in their work on floppies, though more of that
is being handled via the web.
But, how well will it work to install software on the iMac via the
10Base-T link from a floppy drive on a PowerMac? I think I had problems
trying to do this over Appletalk/PhoneNet. I suppose it depends on whether
the installer gives the option of installing on a networked drive. [These
questions are motivated by the dumb choice I made a couple of years ago to
buy Microsoft Office 4.2 on floppies and not a CD-ROM. I just opened the
install disk for the application, and did not find a way to choose the
drive on which to install the program.]
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scg
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response 19 of 101:
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Aug 30 18:51 UTC 1998 |
Ah, I hadn't realized it had a CD ROM drive. In that case, I wouldn't have
much use for the floppy drive.
At this point, with dorms at many schools wired for ethernet, and students
who don't have teh ethernt connections often having good dial-up net
connectivity, I would assume students have other ways of exchanging file
without having to pass around floppy disks. Whether they're using the
networks for that or not, I don't know.
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rcurl
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response 20 of 101:
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Aug 30 22:55 UTC 1998 |
You should look at the specs. The iMac also has a built in 56 Kbps modem,
10/100Base-T port, 2 12Mbps USB ports, a 4 Mbps IrDA port, 4 GB HD, and
233 MB G3 processor (among other stuff).
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n8nxf
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response 21 of 101:
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Aug 31 10:31 UTC 1998 |
That reminds me. I still need to help Rane fix his SE...
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rcurl
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response 22 of 101:
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Aug 31 16:32 UTC 1998 |
I'd like that, but your house constructions comes first. We'd still have
use for the SE (like I still use my XT). Can't have too many computers...
I've ordered an iMac, and now trying to find the 10Base-T cables or the
parts for making them. The information about this I've gotten here is
more useful than any books I have - which don't describe the nitty-gritty
of cables and connectors. I did discover that 10Base-T uses only two (2)
twisted pairs, on the 1-2 and 3-6 RJ-45 connector contacts, but I'm
not sure what the positions are for reversed (crossover) cables. Couplers
are another story. I'd be glad to make the cables, but it is very unclear
what UTP cable works in which style RJ-45 connectors, and how to wire
a crossover cable. Maybe a 5-port hub for $40 is the way to go...then I
could have another box with nifty flashing lights, like in Star Trek...
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scg
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response 23 of 101:
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Aug 31 22:45 UTC 1998 |
10BaseT uses only four wires, but it's easier to use eight conducter cable,
and just wire it straight through, than it is to think about it.
For crossover, the pinout is:
1 -- 3
2 -- 6
3 -- 1
6 -- 2
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rcurl
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response 24 of 101:
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Sep 1 04:30 UTC 1998 |
Thanks! (I didn't guess that.) What kind of mod conn does 8 cond Level 5
UTP cable go into: for "round solid cable" or for "flat cable"? This might
just be the economical way to go (if the crimper isn't too expensive).
Then, if I add a third computer, I'd just need a hub.
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