Cheap Eats

Jun 15 14:51 UTC 2007

Here's the conversation about Cheap Eats.

response 2 of 158:

Jun 16 01:34 UTC 2007

Opps, first sentance above, stco=stock. How I came up with stco, who 
knows.

response 4 of 158:

Jun 16 02:48 UTC 2007

wow. that sounds really tasty

response 6 of 158:

Jun 16 17:31 UTC 2007

After lots of fiddling with exchange lists and food diary entries I've
come up with a pretty standard breakfast.

First thing in the morning I indulge in 1/2 of hot milk mixed with a
shot of expresso coffee.  

Later, when I get hungry, I have a simple muesli mixture of rolled oats,
yogurt, raisins and walnuts.  The walnuts are there to boost my fat
intake for the day, which is sometimes hard to keep at 30-35% of
calories.

End-of-the-day analysis of food intake over the past couple weeks has
highlighted that as an area of imbalance.  Since walnut oil is one of
the healthier polyunsaturated fats, I chose it both for the texture and
for its nutritional value.  

response 8 of 158:

Jun 19 02:09 UTC 2007

You really put a lot of effort into your diet. 

For me, it is better for my mental health if I dont but that is because 
of some food issues I have. I sometimes wish that Purina would make 
a "people chow" or something. 

response 10 of 158:

Jun 19 12:28 UTC 2007

slynne, we can make you a "people chow" recipe if you like. *grin*  I'll even
come help you cook it.  

At one point in my backpacking days I carried a few tubes of homemade survival
food.  IIRC, it was shortening mixed with dried eggs and powdered sugar in
some ratio that met basic protein and calorie needs.  Kinda like icing on a
training program bender.  Now days I think I'd use whey powder instead of the
eggs.  

You're welcome, Anne.  Feel free to post any questions.

WARNING:  Don't be fooled by the decimal points!  Nutrition is an inexact
science at best.  Especially in the US, where your slightly overfilled half
cup is equated with my dead level one. (Cooking systems that use weight
instead of volume for recipes are slightly more accurate).

Just because Excel *can* calculate things to 15 decimal points doesn't mean
that your answer is more accurate.  

My logic is that the errors cancel each other out if you are only making
comparisons.  In general, it's accurate to claim that carrots have more x than
tomatoes do.  You cannot however feel comfortable saying "this carrot lying
on my kitchen counter will contain x calories per ounce".  

You can only assume that, over time, and carrots from many different sources,
you will consume carrots that average out to the same values as the hundreds
of carrots that died for science and the USDA database.  

response 12 of 158:

Jun 19 15:18 UTC 2007

I might not need help cooking it but I would love to come up with a
recipe for "people chow". I think that such a thing will help me
separate eating for pleasure and eating for fuel. Plus it sounds like it
could be really convenient. 

response 14 of 158:

Jun 19 18:10 UTC 2007

Good question about the difference between whole grain and refined
carbs, Sindi.  As you can see from the shopping list, my grain intake is
almost all whole grains:  rolled oats, whole wheat flour, cornmeal,
brown rice.  

The dried lentils, navy beans, pintos, and split peas are also complex
carbohydrates.  I don't have any juices on the list for the same reason:
juice is far more rapidly digested than the same liquid embedded in the
whole carrot, or orange, or whatever.  

The 100 gram limit is changeable in this regard:  it is tied to the
number of calories consumed.  As long as the calories from carbohydrates
do not exceed 1/3 of the calories consumed, I can eat more.  

In order to add carbohydrates, I would have to simultaneously add
protein and fat calories in equivalent amounts.  I quickly go over
caloric equilibrium when I do that.  Even at the maximum calorie level
of 1400 calories per day, I can only have 117 grams of carbohydrates.  I
keep the 100 figure in my head because it's easy to remember. 

response 16 of 158:

Jun 19 22:19 UTC 2007

Try reading more carefully, and I'll try to write more clearly.  

Item 244:6
 "The walnuts are there to boost my fat intake for the day, which is sometimes
hard to keep at 30-35% of calories."

Item 243:14
"I cannot reach my needed protein levels eating beans since the calories per
gram of protein are way too high."

Item 243:20
"Because I use beans as a meat alternative, it really works out to 1 starch,
3 veges, 1 fruit, and 6 additional meat choices.  Because I eat relatively
low fat foods, I sometimes have to add in walnuts at the end of the day to
bring the percentages into balance."
 
I use walnuts and olive oil to raise fat intake.  I use meat to raise protein
intake.  I use the beans/grain group to raise carbohydrate intake.  

If I only use the beans/grain group to meet protein needs, I exceed my daily
calorie limits.  

My doctor recommended the protein intake that will keep me in zero nitrogen
balance. 

My doctor does not use metric measurements in making recommendations to me.
I have lived in countries that use such a system and well understand the
difference between pounds and kilograms. 

I also am familiar with international nutrition guidelines, having worked with
a UNICEF child nutrition organization.

The recommendation is based on research conducted after the WHO guidelines
were adopted in 1985.  

response 18 of 158:

Jun 20 19:23 UTC 2007

Internet research reveals that the US RDA is .8 g protein per kg ideal body
weight, which is 1/3 higher than most people need because it tries to include
97.5% of the population, including some who are unable to absorb nutrients
properly.  Let's assume this diet is for a 55 year old 55 kg woman (I am
roughly that, so probably is Colleen).  121 lb.  .8g/kg is .36/lb.  121x.36
= 37 g.  Most people would be fine with 3/4 of that or about 28 g protein.
Protein requirements can be 1 or even 1.2 g/kg if you are doing body building
or endurance training, but not with normal activity.

The calorie requirements for this woman, height 5'6" (the site wanted that)
are for moderately active (gardening, housework) 1900 cal/day, and for very
active (jogging) 2100 cal/day.
Colleen mentions she needs 1500 cal/day, and that she is very active.  I have
met Colleen and she is not 3/4 my size.  

My numbers (28-37 g protein, 2100 calories) do not match hers (62-78 g?, 1500
calories).  

I found an interesting site listing protein and calories contents of many
foods.  You could get enough protein by eating only one grain or bean, with
only about half the daily required calories.  You could get enough protein
by eating only vegetables.  You cannot get enough from fruits, which are low
in protein and high in sugar, or from refined foods made with a lot of fat
or sugar.  (This site claimed the RDA was double what most people need.)

Almost all the sites I found list .8 g/kg US RDA, which is 1/3 more than 
most people need.  The excess protein is used for energy and the nitrogen 
part is excreted in the urine.

The dietary suggestions I hear are to 'reduce' fat intake to no more than 1/3,
not to raise it to that.  

I also read that if you eat twice the RDA of protein it is bad for your
health.  With an RDA of 37g/day, 74g/day is bad for your health.  The
metabolic byproducts (ketones) are not good for you. 

response 20 of 158:

Jun 20 20:47 UTC 2007

Professional advice cannot be replaced by a casual internet search.

The protein and calorie levels listed above are correct.  My doctor did not
misspeak; I did not misunderstand. 

I had sufficiently long conversations that I am satisfied that the advice was
based on accurate, up-to-date, relevant information and data. 

Your one-size-fits-all approach does not work and your numbers do not match
mine for this reason. You simply do not have enough information about the
situation to draw any conclusions about my doctor's advice.  

Your final conclusion (74 g/day is bad for your health) is just WRONG. As long
as you have a zero nitrogen balance, you are eating the appropriate amount
of protein.  While I appreciate your concern, please don't continue giving
amateur advice about my health.

response 22 of 158:

Jun 20 21:04 UTC 2007

Simple Mayonnaise Coleslaw

2 C cabbage
3 Tbsp  onions
4 tsp  mayonnaise
1/2 tsp lemon juice
1/8 tsp  dry mustard
Celery seeds pinch
Salt a few grains
Pepper a few grindings


Shred cabbage.  Chop onion fine.

Mix mayonnaise, sugar, lemon juice, mustard, celery seeds, salt, and pepper
in large bowl.

Stir in cabbage, carrots, and onions.

Refrigerate at least 1 hour to blend flavors.

This is two servings (2 C raw cabbage).

response 24 of 158:

Jun 20 21:09 UTC 2007

Re 21  My boss is Armenian and his last name is Berberian.  He's one 
of the pickiest eaters I know, but he does say I make a very good 
baklava.