response 1 of 8:

Dec 15 02:32 UTC 1998

We are attempting to make two foods based on lactic acid fermentation, which
as far as I can tell takes place anaerobically (keep out the air) and is due
to lactic acid bacteria, which can tolerate salt in concentrations that other
things cannot.  They produce lactic acid, which lowers the acidity and also
helps preserve foods.  Lactic acid (salt-cured) foods include miso, fermented
tofu, shrimp paste, winter sausages (self-preserving) and such pickled
vegetables as half-sour pickled cucumbers, sauerkraut, kimchi (in which garlic
and red pepper also act as preservatives), and Japanese and Chinese pickled
daikon and cabbages and mustard greens, as well as sourdough bread.  You can
also produce lactic acid without salt if you start with lactose, so that milk
can turn into yogurt.  Other things fermented without salt are more likely
to produce alcohol (if the air is kept out) or vinegar (with air), if you
start with enough sugar.
        We are attempting sourdough bread and salt-cured daikon pickles.  I
found many sort of vague pickled cabbage or daikon recipes, telling you to
add various amounts of salt (not too much and not too little), make sure the
vegetable stays submerged in the brine which forms when you add salt (by
weighing it down with a plate and rock, we are using a small bowl in a small
crock), skimming off the scum every day, and keeping in a dark cool place.
But what is cool?  One recipe on the web said under 70.  A Korean recipe said
2 days to a week for fermentation, depending on the temperature.  Is there
an ideal temperature for lactic acid bacteria?  The sourdough bread is
supposed to stay warm, whatever that means.  Various recipes said to cure with
salt for 2 days, 3-4, 7 days, or 3 weeks, then refrigerate (or keep in the
cellar or buried in the ground to prevent freezing).  Expect carbon dioxide
bubbles so do not seal the container.  Has anyone tried salt-curing?
        The sourdough rye is based on a reduction in acidity preventing the
growth of organisms which break down the starch (says a website), and the
starch is what keeps the carbon dioxide bubbles trapped in the bread, since
rye flour is low gluten, so you want to develop acidity quickly.  The bubbles
are produced by the lactic acid bacteria and by wild (or added) yeasts.  We
may leave the covered stainless pot of thin dough overnight on the furnace
to stay warm (on top of an upturned pan to prevent too much heating).  You
have to keep the dough very wet, too, and make sure to add enough salt.
        A friend from Macedonia said they draw off the liquid at the bottom
of the barrel frequently to prevent spoilage, how would this help?  (For
sauerkraut).  There was mention in one recipe of a white sediment forming at
the bottom, what does this consist of and should it be removed?
        Has anyone tried making miso, tempeh, or cheese?  What sorts of things
go wrong when making wine or beer, and why?

response 3 of 8:

Dec 15 18:13 UTC 1998

Yes, lowers the pH, increases the acidity.  Today the pickled daikon tastes
not only salty but maybe slightly acidic (or is this wishful thinking) and
I cannot see any bubbles.  The liquid dough for the bread (half the flour in
all the water and a lot of old yeast) rose and fell, hopefully the lactic acid
bacteria have done their thing, and we added wheat flour and will let it rise
again.  I chopped up 12 oz of cabbage and added 1.5 tsp salt (Joy of Cooking
proportions for sauerkraut) and have stuffed this into a glass storage
container with a lid that will hopefully weight the contents down enough to
force the liquid out of the salted cabbage, which is not oozing like the
radish did.  May have to add some boiled salty water this time, or put a
weight on the sort-of-heavy glass lid.  (One of those rectangular containers,
with the lid upside down to let bubbles out around the edges.  You do not want
to make them airtight or the CO2 will explode them).
        I made half-sour cucumber pickles one time but did not follow my
grandfather's instructions to refrigerate after a couple of days, and they
spoiled.  Anyone else ever pickle cukes?  (salt method, not vinegar).
We hav purchased pickled Chinese mustard, Chinese cabbage, turnip, and radish,
and add small amounts to vegetables for flavor.  The fermentation converts
the original chemicals to different ones with more flavor.  Also salted black
soy beans taste very different from just boiled soy beans.

response 5 of 8:

Dec 18 19:57 UTC 1998

The radishes and cabbage were drying out, I topped them off with water.  The
radish still smells like raw radish, but the cabbage smells like sauerkraut!
A Polish woman at the farmer's market sells sauerkraut in ziplock bags, which
I think she said was made without salt (or with less than usual).  I have a
lot of trouble following her explanations.

response 7 of 8:

Dec 25 01:38 UTC 1998

For a couple of years, a friend and I did sourdough bread, trading recipes
and some of the starter. You kept a lump of starter in the refrigerator, then
took some of it, kneaded it with flour, water, salt, sugar, let it rise, and
baked it. Results were extremely variable. Worst result was the time when the
starter went berserk in the refrigerator and I had to clean up the mess. Much
more recently another friend gave me a recipe that used a sourdough starter,
but it added yeast and had far too much sugar. It was much too sweet for me.