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| Author |
Message |
raven
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Exxon passes the Congress?
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Dec 10 05:58 UTC 1995 |
Someone told me that some version of the Exxon amendment passed the
congress. Is this true? If so what are the repercussions for Grex? Will
we have to censor the conferences? Will Clinton sign the telecom bill
into law?
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| 440 responses total. |
raven
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response 1 of 440:
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Dec 10 07:39 UTC 1995 |
I have confirmed this sad truth by visiting http://www.efff.org.
According to EFF civil liberties groups are organizing a day of protest
about the Exxon legislation on Tues Dec 12th that will involve e-mail,
phone calls, faxes, and protests in the street. Visit the eff web site
for me more info. This item now linked to the cyberpunk conf. The conf
of net culture and controversy.
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remmers
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response 2 of 440:
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Dec 10 17:40 UTC 1995 |
It has not yet passed congress. The Exon (not "Exxon") amendment is
part of a larger telecommunications bill. The House and Senate earlier
passed different versions of the bill, and a joint conference
committee has been meeting to work out the differences.
What *has* happened is that the joint committee rejected compromise
language pushed by moderate Republicans and online service providers
regarding "obscene and indecent" material and instead approved the
harsh language known as the "Exon amendment". It imposes fines of up
to $100,000 and prison terms of up to 5 years for people who make
"indecent" material available online to minors. The vote in the
committee was close (17 yes, 16 no) but it *did* pass, and that
means that when the bill comes before congress for a vote, it will
specify these harsh penalties for providing access to minors to
"indecent" material. As the term "indecent" is vaguely defined
(does it include four-letter words, for example?) this could open
up a real legal morass and be a serious problem for systems like
Grex and the people who run them.
Under the language of the bill, service providers can be liable
for the posting of indecent and obscene material, although if a
provider can show a good-faith effort to shield minors from such
material, that can be used as a defense. Consider that, and then
consider Grex's open newuser, no-verification, no-censorship policies.
This is NOT YET LAW. But a vote on the telecommunications bill
before the end of the year is being pushed in Congress. So if it
passes and the President signs it, it *could* become law before
January 1. That is the reason for the timing of the EFF protest.
I will breathe an immense sigh of relief if this is defeated.
But considering the rejection of compromises by the joint committee,
in the face of massive protests and serious questions about consitu-
tionality, the signs are ominous. I don't consider it a given that
the President will veto it, either. This would not be the first time
that rationality and good sense have been casualties of the political
process.
Various civil rights groups have vowed to fight this in the courts,
if it passes. I hope that they are successful. You may think it's
unconstitutional, and I may think it's unconstitutional, but that
doesn't mean it won't be a lot of trouble and expense (including
possible jail time) for somebody to establish that.
My source for the above is a December 7 front page New York Times
article.
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steve
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response 3 of 440:
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Dec 10 18:40 UTC 1995 |
These are dark times for America.
I won't help close down Grex in any way because of this.
I will stand up to this if I can. I will face inprisonment over
this.
Simply stated, it is time to stand up and be counted.
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rcurl
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response 4 of 440:
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Dec 10 19:09 UTC 1995 |
And keep this in mind when you vote next November.
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carson
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response 5 of 440:
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Dec 10 19:36 UTC 1995 |
(yes. remember: Exxon is a retiring Democrat.)
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bru
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response 6 of 440:
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Dec 10 19:37 UTC 1995 |
And remember, Gingrich did "NOT" want this. The vote was not along party
lines. So see how your rep voted before making a decision.
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carson
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response 7 of 440:
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Dec 10 19:37 UTC 1995 |
(oops; "Exxon" is the oil company, "Exon" is the senator.)
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adbarr
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response 8 of 440:
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Dec 10 20:42 UTC 1995 |
. . .the clock struck thirteen.
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ajax
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response 9 of 440:
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Dec 11 02:36 UTC 1995 |
A 12/6 article I read made it sound like the bill is still in committee;
that's probably where it "passed." Some excerpts I found interesting:
> The House members of the conference committee rejected on a 20-13 vote a
>stronger proposal from Rep. Henry Hyde, R-Illinois, and backed by the
>Christian Coalition, then voted 17-16 to toughen the language in the White
>proposal, substituting an "indecency" standard for the "harmful to minors"
>standard.
> ...
> Jerry Berman, executive director of the Center for Democracy and
>Technology, an advocate for civil liberties on the Internet, said he was
>"extremely disappointed" in Reps. Pat Schroeder, D-Colorado, and John
>Conyers, D-Michigan, who voted for the "indecency" standard, adding his
>organization will fight the bill in court if it is enacted.
> Nutting notes the FCC has defined "indecency" as "language or material
>that, in context, depicts or describes, in terms patently offensive as
>measured by contemporary community standards ... sexual or excretory
>activities or organs."
> He added the "indecency" standard was applied when the FCC ruled that
>radio stations could not broadcast George Carlin's comedy routine "Seven
>Dirty Words You Can't Say on TV."
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void
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response 10 of 440:
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Dec 11 05:32 UTC 1995 |
So, would Grex, or any other similar system, be willing to support any or
all of its users who decided to use that system to start a test case?
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rcurl
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response 11 of 440:
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Dec 11 06:47 UTC 1995 |
Support them with what?
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dadroc
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response 12 of 440:
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Dec 11 14:53 UTC 1995 |
Seems like congress does not want us to have the first amendment any
more. Only proper thoughts get online or on TV or radio. What is next?
A remake of the flying nun for sure.
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albaugh
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response 13 of 440:
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Dec 11 17:01 UTC 1995 |
Given prevailing U.S. "standards" for appropriateness of certain material
for minors, I don't see why anyone should be surprized that these standards
are being pursued for application to the internet. I think the concerns
should be whether or not there is vagueness in what the bill means w.r.t.
what *shouldn't* be available for minors, and what level of control and
responsibility should be required of network providers.
If "you" (e.g. grex) can't guarantee that no minors have access to areas
not appropriate for them, then either you must prohibit minors from having
any access to the system (may be technically possible, if burdensome), or
place the responsibility of not posting unsuitable material onto the system
users. I don't think the Exon amendment allows for that delegation/abdication
of responsibility, however (though I haven't read the text to know...).
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steve
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response 14 of 440:
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Dec 11 23:14 UTC 1995 |
I wonder: what ever happened to the concept of parents making
decisions about what their kids can see and do?
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ajax
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response 15 of 440:
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Dec 11 23:45 UTC 1995 |
I downloaded a couple documents from the EFF's web site. Their analysis
of the legislation is in /u/ajax/cda_analysis. Also, they're one of dozens
of civil liberties groups sponsoring a "day of protest" tomorrow, trying
to get the public to contact their congresspeople. The EFF's info, with
numbers to contact, is in /u/ajax/protest. I announced that in the MOTD
as well. Not sure if such political announcements are appropriate there,
but I just read about it today, so there wasn't any time to ask in
co-op if it was alright. (You can type !more /u/ajax/protest from the
"Respond or pass?" prompt to read the file).
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kerouac
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response 16 of 440:
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Dec 12 01:31 UTC 1995 |
It would be terrible if this forced the Grex's of the world to take
measures like AOL does. Recently they added the word "breast" to
the forbidden word list (seriously, trying to cut down on dirty talk
I guess) Anyway a whole group of folks in a cancer discussion group
got suspended for using the "b" word over the course of a week and there
was an official recantation by AOL. According to an article in last
week's Washington Post, AOL site producers now allow use of the word
"breast" if it is deemed to be in context of serious related conversation.
This idiocy is exactly why I refuse to use AOL, even when its on systems
at places I work. I'd hate to see Grex's programmers be forced to
come up with a censor program that scans everything and locks out people
who say the wrong words. I've used boards like that before and its
pretty damn annoying.
But I'm sure many individual words would be considered "indecent material"
in and of themselves under this law. **shudder**
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scg
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response 17 of 440:
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Dec 12 06:22 UTC 1995 |
I'm glad you put that in the MOTD, Rob. I probably wouldn't have noticed it
otherwise. I noticed Lynn Rivers wasn't in their list, or in the list on
www.house.gov of congresspeople with e-mail, but I thought I heard a few
months ago that she did have e-mail. Does anybody know her address?
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bruin
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response 18 of 440:
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Dec 12 13:22 UTC 1995 |
I have Emailed messages to those with Email addresses and called the offices
of the others listed. Pat Schroeder's receptionist stated her opposition,
as well as the House Speaker's. Senator Lott's phone did not answer, and
Senator Exon's voice mail box was full as of 8:15 a.m. EST 12/12/95 (I wonder
why!!!!!). Have also contacted Senators Abraham and Levin and Congresswoman
Rivers as well. Stay tuned.
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popcorn
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response 19 of 440:
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Dec 12 14:53 UTC 1995 |
This response has been erased.
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popcorn
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response 20 of 440:
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Dec 12 15:33 UTC 1995 |
This response has been erased.
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bruin
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response 21 of 440:
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Dec 12 19:42 UTC 1995 |
I have completed contacting the congresspersons in question via phone or
Email, including Exon and Lott. Also just received an Email reply from
Wendell Ford's (D-KY) office.
BTW, did you notice that Exon apparently doesn't have an Email address listed?
Moral: He no playa da game, he no makea da rules.
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bubu
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response 22 of 440:
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Dec 12 21:29 UTC 1995 |
All I can say about this matter is this: Sure i dont agree or even like some
of the things I see on the internet. I will not keep others from exercising
their rights a American citizens. I am a father with two kids, and it is sad
to think that congress needs to step in and help me parent. Unfortunately
there are too many parents today that don't give a damn about their children
or what they might be doing at any given time just as long as they are out
of the way...Yes it is time to stand up and fight!!! It is also time for
American parents to stand up and take resonsibility for their families..
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adbarr
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response 23 of 440:
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Dec 12 22:09 UTC 1995 |
Called Dole, Gingrich, and Conyers.
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scott
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response 24 of 440:
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Dec 12 23:27 UTC 1995 |
Called Exon and Conyers.
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