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popcorn
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Lump on the head
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Jan 2 17:49 UTC 1996 |
This item has been erased.
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| 91 responses total. |
adbarr
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response 1 of 91:
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Jan 2 17:56 UTC 1996 |
Precious bodily fluids?
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scott
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response 2 of 91:
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Jan 2 17:57 UTC 1996 |
All the cells suddenly absorbed a bunch of fluid?
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scott
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response 3 of 91:
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Jan 2 17:58 UTC 1996 |
(this item now linked to health conference)
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chelsea
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response 4 of 91:
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Jan 2 18:53 UTC 1996 |
Wounded cells send out an SOS and the help arrives in lymphatic fluids,
which pool in the wound's third space (extra-vascular and extra-cellular).
This fluid bath is rich in specialized components which promote blood
coagulation and cell-healing. This excess fluid also helps serves as a
tamponade, minimizing capillary loss. This all happens very quickly.
Ice packs will minimize pain and swelling. But applying cold does actually
fight the bodies natural healing process to some extent. Which is why you
don't want to use cold for very long. With something like an ankle sprain
it's advised you use ice, intermittently, for only the first 24 hours.
Then apply gentle heat, at intervals. Elevating the wounded area, above
heart level, is also helpful.
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lk
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response 5 of 91:
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Jan 2 19:47 UTC 1996 |
An OSU trainer at one of their facilities once told me that after being
banged-up, one should wait for 48 hours prior to applying heat, which in that
case meant a nice hot-tub. None of which persuaded me from not wanting to
jump into the hot-tub with said trainer.... (: (Oh, don't worry, I wasn't
the injured party -- and there was a football game to be, uh, tied.)
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mdw
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response 6 of 91:
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Jan 3 01:29 UTC 1996 |
The head is *very* well supplied with blood vessels - which may help
to explain why the bump rose so quickly.
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zook
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response 7 of 91:
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Jan 3 13:39 UTC 1996 |
What Mary said is right, sort of. The cells send out a variety of
chemical signals constituting an SOS. These signals cause the the
capillaries and local blood vessels to become very leaky. As a result, a
variety of serum "stuff" spills out - proteins, antibodies, white cells,
etc. The proper term for this is "inflammation", and it is the body's way
of dealing with injury. Ice and anti-inflammatory agents attenuate this
response, and thus help with the swelling. Part of the SOS signal
sensitizes local nerves, to make the area painful. This is to let you
know that there is a problem, and that you should be careful with the
area in question.
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n8nxf
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response 8 of 91:
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Jan 3 13:59 UTC 1996 |
I never could tolerate ice and such on an injury. I just let my body do
its thing and all is well sooner or later. ^like that
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adbarr
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response 9 of 91:
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Jan 3 14:58 UTC 1996 |
Re #7 - Your medical texts must be a tad out of date. The current, and
preferred term is "Mayday". I think it is part of the Geneva Convention, or
something when an international committee agreed on certain standards for
declaring a celluar emergency. I believe SOS went out (or down) with the
Titanic? STeve would know.
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iggy
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response 10 of 91:
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Jan 3 16:22 UTC 1996 |
i would also guess that the head has less tissue to distribute the
fluids, so bumps appear larger and faster than on an arm or leg.
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rickyb
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response 11 of 91:
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Jan 4 00:39 UTC 1996 |
I can't quote texts for this, just speaking from experience...
basically, what was said is correct. However, the speed of swelling is more
related to intensity of injury _and_ location, rather than location itself.
On the foot/ankle, the force of gravity can make an ankle swell up to a huge
size in no time at all! Certainly, vascularity of the site, and it's relative
importance to the organism (head/brain vs toe/nail) will also be factors in
swelling. (btw, this is interstitial edema...swelling of the spaces between
the cells. there may also be some swollen cells, and fluid accumulations such
as hematoma, bursa, etc).
Regarding cold and heat. It is my understanding that the "use ice 24 hrs,
then heat" routine went out over 15 years ago. The current concept is to use
ice for "acute" injuries/inflammations and _moist heat_ for "chronic"
inflammations. Chronic is usually defined as having existed for at least six
months, but that definition is in a grey area (depending on what kind of
injury was sustained, if any).
The idea of R.I.C.E. (_R_est, _I_ce, _C_ompression and _E_levation) for acute
injuries helps reduce initial swelling via vasoconstriction, compression and
elevation, but there is a rebound effect which actually _increases local blood
flow_.
If you use heat, on the other hand, you'll get vaso-dilation and a lot of
swelling very quickly. but once you remove the heat the vessels go right back
to normal size and the edema can't get out. The rebound effect of cooling
the tissues is to bring in more blood flow to warm up the cold cells, and
there is a prolonged vaso-dilation which ultimately allows for the edema to
subside more quickly, and at the same time, allows for greater infiltration
of the healing "inflammatory cells" and blood flow in general.
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chelsea
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response 12 of 91:
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Jan 4 00:54 UTC 1996 |
What Bret said is right too, sort of. Lymphatic capillaries are
involved in the healing process, along with other local vessels.
Except, of course, if the injury is intra-cranial, where there
are no lymphatic components. Or maybe that wasn't the "sort of"
you meant?
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chelsea
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response 13 of 91:
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Jan 4 01:13 UTC 1996 |
#11 slipped in.
Have at 'em about the heat/cold, Bret. I'm too tired at the moment.
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gull
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response 14 of 91:
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Jan 4 04:16 UTC 1996 |
Re #9: I believe "Mayday" is the preferred distress call for voice, and
SOS is used for CW (Morse code) transmissions, because it's short and has
a distinctive rhythm. "Mayday" is a corruption of the French for "help
me," which I can't spell. ;)
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void
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response 15 of 91:
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Jan 4 04:59 UTC 1996 |
"m'aidez," perhaps? ;)
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srw
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response 16 of 91:
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Jan 4 05:39 UTC 1996 |
Voila'
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rcurl
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response 17 of 91:
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Jan 4 08:11 UTC 1996 |
I was told to apply cold (icepack) to an acute injury for no longer
than about 10 minutes, though I do not recall the reason - something
about longer application at any one time being detrimental to the
healing process. I've used this regimen with some satisfaction.
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adbarr
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response 18 of 91:
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Jan 4 11:36 UTC 1996 |
Gull. You mean we have millions of tiny little key-sets inside? Neat. No
wonder I hear rapid clicking sometimes. I stand corrected.
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steve
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response 19 of 91:
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Jan 4 22:53 UTC 1996 |
Every time I've done something to myself, like falling down, etc.
I've been told to put ice on it. I've tried several times, but it
just felt wrong, and drove me back to the hot water source. Heat
has always seemed to work, for me. I wonder if others have noticed
that too? Maybe this is something of an individual thing?
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scott
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response 20 of 91:
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Jan 4 23:55 UTC 1996 |
Ice usually seems to help, at least for me. It's a little uncomfortable with
the cold, but it does tend to numb the pain and reduce later problems. I've
had some recurring knee pain from when I used to try to jog on a regular
basis, and ice definitely helped when I used it.
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adbarr
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response 21 of 91:
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Jan 5 00:04 UTC 1996 |
I find that ice, mixed with just the right quantity of vodka, has certain
comendable properties at times.
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danr
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response 22 of 91:
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Jan 5 00:30 UTC 1996 |
I'll second that motioin, but I'll thave my ice with some bourbon, please.
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rcurl
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response 23 of 91:
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Jan 5 04:00 UTC 1996 |
Both vodka and bourbon mixed with ice can produce temperatures lower
than freezing. Useful to know when your swizzle stick gets too limp.
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remmers
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response 24 of 91:
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Jan 5 12:05 UTC 1996 |
Is there OOCQ material in #23?
Anyway...
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
- Robert Frost
Sorry for the digression folks, but the heat/cold discussion
reminded me of this great Frost thing. Now back to your regularly
scheduled bonk on the head.
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