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Grex > Hardware > #113: Need Help Assembling a PC From Scratch | |
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moorehed
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Need Help Assembling a PC From Scratch
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Jul 17 01:17 UTC 1996 |
hello i am going to be assembleing a pc hopefully. right now i have nothing
and basically not a whole lot of knowledge on the topic besides basic computer
knowledge. here is what i am figureing i need so far just to get a system that
works:
Need:
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Motherboard/CPU
SIMMs Comapatable w/mb
Hard Disk
Monitor
Floppy Drive
Case/PowerSupply
Keyboard/Mouse
i have lots of questions tho! when i get a case... will any mother board fit
into any case? or are their a few different kinds? or are all unique? if
either of the latter two and i buy a case and/or motherboard from classifieds
on the computer how will i know if they will fit and such?
that was #1.
2.) how will the HD and floppy drive and everything connect? do i need to
buy special cables or will they all come with everything i need?
3.) what is standard ram for a pc or does it all differ? (ie 72 pin? non
parity? what ns?)
4.) does it matter what kind of power supply i have? how large?
will i nead special controller cards for mouse/keybard/floppy/harddisk? or
do they just mount to the mb? <---- 5.)
6.) does anyone have any texts on this that would help me or a www site that
helps? if i know what i need to get and buy i should be fine... lets say i
saw on a site a 5x86 mb/cpu and then somehwere else i saw ram and somewhere
else a case somewhere else a keybard mouse and monitor and somewhere else a
harddisk and floppy drive could i just buy them all and put them together?
ok thanks everyone VERY much. email me or post here with any info. anything
you could tell me would be great cuz basically as you can tell i dont know
a whole lot! thanks
moorehed
-----------------------------Tear Here--------------------------------------
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| 20 responses total. |
scg
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response 1 of 20:
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Jul 17 03:44 UTC 1996 |
In theory, if you get a bunch of standard components and the appropriate
components, you should be able to set the appropriate jumper settings, plug
everything into the right places, do the appropriate settings in the CMOS,
and have a working computer. That's in theory. In practice, things generally
aren't that simple. After a bit of messing with it, my current Unix box,
which I built out of old parts we had sitting around my office, is working
fine. OTOH, I've seen a lot of projects of this nature that have ended up
becoming incredibly complicated.
It looks to me from what you posted as if you're not trying to build something
out of old parts, but rather trying to build a new system. It's worth
pointing out, therefore, that buying all the parts seperately is likely to
be more expensive than just buying a computer, since when you buy a whole
computer you tend to save a bit on parts since it's a package deal. This is
also a way to run into a lot of trouble, since if something doesn't work, it's
not the same as dealing with something purchased as a complete computer that
doesn't work, or adding something to a previously working system, since you
can't just call the store that sold you the computer or the component and tell
them to fix it. Instead, you are left with a situation where if anything
doesn't work, you have a bunch of different hardware vendors that can all
blame you, or eachother, and it can be rather difficult to tell which
component is causing a problem.
This would be a good learning experience, though. If you're looking for a
learning experience, rather than a cheap computer, go for it.
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ajax
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response 2 of 20:
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Jul 17 03:57 UTC 1996 |
Hmm...I differ on scg only on the "parts cost more than a whole system"
suggestion. If you shop carefully, I find the parts route generally
cheaper. It depends on where you buy the parts. A $5 investment in a
Computer Shopper magazine can pay for itself by turning up good deals.
To answer the questions more specifically....
1) Most current motherboards fit in most current cases. If you get a
really small case you might have some trouble, but it would be advertised
as particularly small. You can always ask for the dimensions to be sure.
Some PC makers have odd case/motherboard designs, but they sell those
components together. I'm partial to mid-size tower cases, because they're
easier to fit things in than with the slim/mini sizes.
2) They use ribbon cables, which are usually included with the controller
card, or with the motherboard if it's got a built-in controller. The cables
are very cheap, and widely available, but it wouldn't hurt to confirm from
a seller that they're included.
3) For modern PC motherboards, the most common type is 72-pin non-parity,
60ns or 70ns. However, it's good to pick the motherboard first, to make
sure you get what you need. One motherboard I have requires SIMMs to be
installed in pairs, for example, while another lets you put them in singly.
You can ask the motherboard seller what the requirements are, or check its
manual once you get it.
4) Power supplies generally come with cases. Some are better than
others, but good quality costs more. Unless you're going to fill a system
with a ton of stuff, the default power supply in a minitower is adequate.
If the case has an option to have a second fan installed, I'd recommend
getting it.
5) All motherboards have keyboard connectors. Some have mouse, floppy,
and hard disk connectors, and some you have to buy those cards separately.
I like the integrated motherboards, because they're simpler to configure.
(E.g., the built-in boot-up setup program lets you enable/disable the
connectors, or reassign their I/O addresses, and such).
Note that you also need a video controller (VGA card), and that's
usually not built into the motherboard. A good thing, since the quality
and price of VGA cards vary considerably.
Also on your list, you might want to add a CD-ROM drive. If you get
an IDE hard drive, you might's well get an IDE CD-ROM. SCSI is better
in some ways, but most people go with IDE, primarily for lower prices.
6) You can buy all the parts separately and put them together. That's
what I usually do. Make sure you match up the hard drive type with the
controller (e.g., IDE or SCSI). And if you buy PCI or VLB bus cards,
make sure they match up with your type of motherboard (i.e. if you get
a PCI motherboard, get a PCI video card, or an ISA video card (ISA works
in anything, but is the slowest type of card.))
It would help to have someone experienced to help you assemble the
system, but I don't think it's imperative. (I'll help if you're around
Ann Arbor.) If you're going to do it yourself, I'd recommend buying a
case from wherever you buy the motherboard, and ask them to install it.
That's the hardest part, IMHO.
Tips for installing the motherboard: make sure you put "spacers" between
it and the case, to prevent electrical shorts. And connect the two power
supply cables to the motherboard such that the black wire on one is adjacent
to the black wire on the other...if they're not next to each other, you can
do impressive damage. Also, there are a lot of little wires for things
like the turbo light, keyboard lock, and reset switch that can take a while
to get in the right places. The wires and connectors are labeled on some
motherboards and cases, and not labeled on others (in that case, you can
look in the motherboard manual, and trace where the wires go to). If you
hook up these wires up wrong, but have them in the right general place
(like a couple pins off), you're unlikely to damage the system, so you
can do a bit of trial-and-error. Oh, one tip for ribbon cables: one edge
is usually red; that should go on the side of the connector that has a "1"
printed next to it (corresponding to pin 1). It will be clearer when you
see it.
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moorehed
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response 3 of 20:
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Jul 17 05:01 UTC 1996 |
thank you both very much.. of course any more help would be great. how much
do the controller and bus cards you were talking about (ajax) run? what is
the bus card for? i was pricing things over the internet and here is about
what i foudn
Triton motherboard with Cyrix 686 P120+ $261.00 with 256 pipeline
RAM:
1x32/70ns (4Mb) SIMM's -----$29 EDO----$32
2x32/70ns (8Mb) SIMM's -----$57 EDO----$58
4x32/70ns (16Mb)SIMM's------$109 EDO----$111
8x32/70ns (32Mb)SIMM's------$218 EDO----$215
Prices found:
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Sony 1.44mb 3.5" FDD $24ea
Mitsumi 104 Windows 95 Keyboard $15ea
16bit SoundCard (SoundBlaster/AdLib Compat) Plug&Play $38ea
850mb 3.5" EIDE HDD (WD AC2850) $170ea
Mitsumi 6x CD-ROM EIDE drive (internal) $69ea
MiniTower Case w/ 230watt p/s $36ea
and then a monitor. what else do i need? are these decent prices? also if ound
this mb
Cyrix 686/100 (P120+) $126.00 with Cyrix fan & heat sink)
Cyrix 686/120 (P150+) $189.00
C
does that mean a 6x86 mb with a p120 cpu? thanks... btw i live near a2, yes.
i live in canton. thanks! later
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omni
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response 4 of 20:
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Jul 17 06:00 UTC 1996 |
Send me e-mail. I have a load of PC parts that I want to get rid of.
I even have a 286 that probably can be restored.
mail me.!
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tsty
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response 5 of 20:
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Jul 17 08:51 UTC 1996 |
actually, login xenon313 has a droolingly good system for sale
in the classifieds.cf .... join class and: read reverse for the
fastest 'good look ....."
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rickyb
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response 6 of 20:
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Jul 17 18:28 UTC 1996 |
Computer Rennassaince (just last night) had a stack of cases with power supply
for about $5.00 each. They were stacked in the middle of the room with a sign
"very limited supply". I'd guess there were about 15-20 of them (no mini
towers as I recall).
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wolfg676
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response 7 of 20:
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Jul 18 03:09 UTC 1996 |
This response has been erased.
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wolfg676
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response 8 of 20:
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Jul 18 03:19 UTC 1996 |
Ahem, as I tried to say in #7 (before something went screwy and mucked the
whole thing up...) was, I bought one of those cases yesterday. Inside was:
i386dx/33, Seagate 660MB HD, 1MB RAM (256k x 4, 30 pin). Got it home, hooked
it up, and it works. It was already loaded with Windows 3.11, and a bunch of
other software. I'd say it was a good deal!
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ajax
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response 9 of 20:
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Jul 18 05:08 UTC 1996 |
Wow wolf, that's a well-equipped "case;" congrats! :-)
Josh, those are decent prices; not sure how they compare with others.
Computer Shopper has an ad index by product, so you can look up all
ads with Mistumi CD-ROMs, for example. Good way to shop.
The card I was referring to was a VGA video card, but it's a "PCI bus"
type. The "bus" is the part of the motherboard that interfaces to the
cards. Bus types include ISA (the original), VLB, and PCI (the latest),
among others. If you get a PCI motherboard (which is likely, if you're
getting a 686), then you want a PCI video card.
I think what they mean with "Cyrix 686/120 (P150+)" is it's a Cyrix 686
chip, running at 120MHz, and the P150+ is the P-rating for the
microprocessor, which means it performs around like a Pentium/150. It's
not an Intel Pentium, it's a clone, but it's a good one.
The first motherboard price you list is for a motherboard, the lower two
are just for the chip (I think). "Triton" isn't the type of motherboard,
actually, it's the type of "support" chips on the motherboard in addition
to the microprocessor. Some added info you *need* about the motherboard
before you buy it:
What type of bus does it have? (most likely PCI)
Does it have built-in serial, parallel, IDE, or floppy controllers?
(These are often listed with lots of abbreviations in small ads, like
686/120 Triton PCI, 4 SIMMs, 2S/1P/EIDE/Floppy)
The things you need to add to your list are:
* VGA video card (figure on spending $30 for an ultra-cheap ISA (slow) one,
to $200 for a pretty good one (you can go higher, but that should do.
Slowness will be apparent on animated video games, and anything else
with moving graphics. Are you planning on playing fast-action games?
* A mouse. I like a quality mouse, but you can get a $15 mouse, and if
you decide you don't like it, you'll have a better idea of how to pick
one you do like. Mouse & keyboard preference is pretty subjective.
* You *may* need a multi-IO card, with EIDE, floppy, 2 serial ports, and
a parallel port. Mutli-IO cards can contain a variety of configurations,
so make sure it has the listed things.
* Do you need a new modem, or do you already have one you can use?
* An operating system, like Windows 95.
I don't know what your budget is like, but if you're really trying to
keep the price down, some old parts work fine with modern 686-style systems.
Cases, keyboards, old VGA cards, old sound cards, etc., should all work
with a new system. You need to know a bit more about old hard drives and
CD-ROMs to make sure they'll work, so you're probably better off buying
those new, if you can afford it.
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scg
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response 10 of 20:
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Jul 18 06:03 UTC 1996 |
I'll have to check out those cases at Renaissance. I need a new case for my
Unix box, and even if the case doesn't include the rest of the computer, like
it did for wolfg676, it will be a good price.
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wolfg676
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response 11 of 20:
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Jul 19 05:49 UTC 1996 |
Can anyone explain this?:
The aforementioned "case" I purchased is up and running. (albeit
intermittently.) The problem I'm having is that when I try to run a
windows-based comm program, the system freezes. It won't respond to
'Ctrl-Alt-Del'. I shut it down, wait, then turn it back on. When I do this,
I get a "invalid drive configuration: HDD failure" error. I got the specs on
the drive from Seagate's tech support page after the first time this happened,
(the drive was originally set as a 10MB for whatever reason.), and it worked.
It happened again, and now it wont work even with the correct settings.
ARRRGH!
I'm using a ST4766E EDSI drive, 1632 Cyl., 15 Heads, 54 Sectors; UltraStor
controller card. The modem is on COM1:3f8h:IRQ 4. The HDD controller is on
IRQ 14. (the previous owner seems to have used this system on a network and
had a hardcard installed. Could that be screwing it up somehow?)
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scott
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response 12 of 20:
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Jul 19 22:38 UTC 1996 |
Sounds like the "case" still works OK. ;)
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moorehed
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response 13 of 20:
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Jul 20 00:45 UTC 1996 |
wait. soyou got a 386/33 for 5 dollars? are all the cases like this they are
selling at renesanse? where is it? and uhmm did they know that was in it whne
ou baught it? any plans of selilng? bye..
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scg
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response 14 of 20:
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Jul 20 08:09 UTC 1996 |
I went out there this morning to buy a case. The cases are now up to $10,
and the one I got just had an 8088 motherboard in it. That's fine with me,
since I already had everything else, and just needed a case. It was a
reasonably nice case, and my FreeBSD machine is now in it.
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wolfg676
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response 15 of 20:
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Jul 21 00:47 UTC 1996 |
re: #13- Actually, it was $10. (and then the $10 I spent for a 101-key
keyboard, and $6 for a 3.5" drive mounting kit.) As for did they notice, I
don't think so. The power cables to the motherboard seemed to have been
disconnected to remove the SIMM chips, and all the wires to the front control
panel were unhooked too. So they probably saw it, or whoever gave it to them
took all that out first, and didn't see any reason to remove anything else.
re: #12- It's working again. But I still can't get the modem to work right.
I tried using ProComm (I was using it on my 8088 and it worked fine). The
modem will dial and connect, but won't display anything on the screen. Any
clues why it does this?
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scott
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response 16 of 20:
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Jul 21 13:27 UTC 1996 |
Can you echo characters in command mode?
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arthurp
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response 17 of 20:
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Jul 21 21:54 UTC 1996 |
What happened to the 8088 MB, Steve?
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scg
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response 18 of 20:
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Jul 22 06:04 UTC 1996 |
It's sitting on the shelf in my closet. I don't have a use for it -- I
already have two complete 8088 systems in there, and 8088s aren't useful to
me for that much anymore. Do you want it?
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wolfg676
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response 19 of 20:
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Jul 23 07:01 UTC 1996 |
I _finally_ got it working. I had a brainstorm during lunch, and decided to
set the modem for COM3. Yippie! It worked! The 8088 I was running didn't have
any external serial ports like the 386 does. COM2 had been set up to run a
mouse. As for COM1, who knows.
Sort of re: #18- I've got a 286 MB if anyone wants it. (I'd offer my other
386, but a couple of people haved already shown interest in it.)
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arthurp
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response 20 of 20:
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Jul 29 22:47 UTC 1996 |
Extra parts are always welcome, but I have a small shoestring.
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