fatphobia in the glb community

May 28 16:27 UTC 1998

Fatphobia in the glb community. Although big women are gaining wide acceptance
in the glb community, big men, it seems, are not. For instance, whenever I
feel the urge to browse the gay personal ads, I am always reading No fats or
fems, ectect...Even Harvy Fierstein commented on the phenomenon in the recent
edition of BTL (or at least he was quoted from another newspaper). Even while
reading the responses in the glb conf, a few times I have read the response
"I like my women nice and plump, but I like men are thin." What is up with
that? This seems to me to be an unfair double standard. Big men are sexy too.

response 2 of 135:

May 28 21:54 UTC 1998

Could it be that men in general tend to be more averse to fat than women in
general?

response 4 of 135:

May 29 15:57 UTC 1998

Plumpness enhances women's ability to bear and nurse children, it does not
enhance men's ability to help in conceiving them.  Men are valued more for
their ability to acquire food and other resources, and in former times
plumpness was proof of this ability.  I would expect that standards in male
beauty among the gay community have changed over the centuries.

response 6 of 135:

May 30 04:26 UTC 1998

I guess it is a matter of taste, sadly enough. I also agree with your
cultural anthropological view. What is rare in a society is often associated
with beauty. In cultures where food is rare, fat people are often considered
the most beautiful. However, in a wealthy, food-abundant culture like the US,
the ultra-thin are considered the most beautiful since there are vanishingly
few people who actually meet our idealized standards of beauty. I'm a firm
believer in genetics, however, and I think that most people are genetically
predisposed to being fat. Most of the fat people that I know eat no more than
the skinny people I know, and in some cases less. The stereotype is that big
people eat large amounts of food. Some do, but I think that most eat just like
anyone else. Most of the health problems associated with obesity could more
easily be associated with yo-yo dieting. Yet, when people look at a fat
person, they think, "How unhealthy.", while a perfectly skinny person could
be very unhealthy and no one thinks twice about it. Who should conform? Should
fat people spend their entire lives dieting trying to conform to these
standards, risking their physical and mental health in an endeavor to do so,
or should the rest of society accept big people as they are and expand their
"tastes" to include a much neglected, minority within a minority? My dream
is that the latter will happen.

response 8 of 135:

May 31 08:34 UTC 1998

Again, agreed.

response 10 of 135:

Jun 2 22:19 UTC 1998

super skinny people..ew.  Well, I do know that there are some people who have
disorders that keep them thin.  I've heard of one who has to take meds just
to keep some meat on his bones.  But they just aren't as discriminated
against as much as those who were born to carry more fat or have a disorder.

I think the bottom line we just discussed is simply that people are
underinformed about what is healthy and what is not, especially because it
can't be based on appearance alone.

response 12 of 135:

Jun 6 00:19 UTC 1998

I am one of the people who said that my main attraction is to slender to
average men.  I apologize if I hurt anyone with that remark.  I certainly find
fat men attractive in many cases -- it's just that the physical thing isn't
there gor me.  Perhaps because I'm fat myself and the logistics are harderwith
two big bellies.  ;)

I agree that we all have to work to change the common public perception of
fat as being unattractive, unhealthy, and a sign of sloth.  What a load!  

response 14 of 135:

Jun 6 19:12 UTC 1998

Actually, I think you're right that in decades and centuries past people
probably judged each other on more rational standards in choosing a mate --
but I don't think Hollywood is entirely at fault in the change.  The way we
increasingly live is at least as much at fault -- how many people do you know,
who are of appropriate age for you to marry/have a relationship with, whom
you've known for more than a few years?  Whose family and family background
are well known to you?  If you grew up in a smallish town and still live
there, you may be able to answer with a positive number, though the number
may be small.  If, like many of us, you didn't grow up in a small town, or
in any one town at all, you may not know *anyone* fitting that description.
So, you have to use somewhat more shallow criteria to pick your mate.  I will
grant you, however, that Hollywood has encouraged us to use the shallowest
of all criteria: how nice is this person to look at?  How prosperous does
he/she seem?

response 16 of 135:

Jun 8 06:21 UTC 1998

I've heard the line, "Men choose women for their child bearing hips," before,
and I'm sure if I buy it. A great deal of male friends are straight and by
far the most common desirable female image that they've expressed to me is
the ultra-thin look (with perhaps large breasts). Then again, I know too many
guys who hang out at the Vu. Of course, not all guys are the same. There are
plenty of guys out there who love women, and even fewer gay/bi men who love
big men (though they are scarce). In the gay male community, I've noticed this
annoying trend: perfection. It seems that many, many young gay males want it
all: perfect body, cute face, flawless hair, great clothes, and money. In
fact, it seems that the three main qualities that I look for in a mate are
rarely important for most guys: intelligence, personality, and empathy. Again,
this brings me to my original question: why are (many) gay males so shallow?

response 18 of 135:

Jun 8 13:07 UTC 1998

By the last comment (rather confusing, I admit) I was refering
to "go figure [that out!] as opposed to me cheering on my
particular body shape. :-)

response 20 of 135:

Jun 9 01:47 UTC 1998

To what degree are those young gay males who just look for perfect looks
and big money also just looking for one-night stands and status?  Real
character doesn't matter much if you're figuring on the relationship 
ending in a few hours.  (From what i know of young hetero males, most of
them are just as shallow.)

response 22 of 135:

Jun 9 16:57 UTC 1998

Re 16, I agree with Blob that the gay males you refer to may not be looking
for mates, as much as for short-term lovers, and would possibly have criteria
more similar to yours (intelligence and personality) if they actually had to
live with the person.  I suspect that hetero males would also choose their
mates (rather than their lovers) using your criteria.  Re 21, Bob, you might
encounter fewer 1-track minds if you were physically unattractive and/or
older.  Looks like you both answered my question - gay males tend to use the
same criteria a straight males to select lovers, and another set to select
mates (which is probably also the same as used by straight men).
        In the personals, many women seem to prefer older men.  Is it also
common for gay women to prefer older women as mates, because of their
increased earning potential and status?  Are there many gay women who prefer
younger women (which would mean their criteria would more resemble those of
hetero men than hetero women)?
        

response 24 of 135:

Jun 9 22:42 UTC 1998

Well, it would seem then that some men in general view potential lovers as
sex objects.

Actually, why doesn't society get real and be honest with itself?  It would
seem that many confuse the difference between a lover and a mate, or they
don't separate the two.  Of course, I think this confusion results due to an
inequality of power-- how many people can afford lovers, and how many can't
afford not to have mates?

Women can be just as guilty when they start gaining power and wealth.