Re: The gender wage gap and our contribution?

Aug 8 19:43 UTC 1997

In the August issue of the American Psychological Association's Journel,
Monitor, the following article appeared:  (edited due to length)

             Women unwittingly uphold wage gap between the sexes

Despite years of striving toward pay equality, women still only make 71 cents
to the male dollar.  ne reason for this-though by no means the only one-is
women's own tendency to devalue themselves, psychologists are finding.  But
women can change those negative self-perceptions through such strategies as
finding out how much men make in comparible positions, and by learning
negotiations techniques, they say.

New studies show the persistency of the wage gap and women's role in
perpetuating it.  In one study. . . . .found that undergraduate men paid
themselves significantly more then undergraduate women for a laboratory
task-$3.99 compared to $2.74.  The women also paid themselves less regardless
of their previous incomes.

Another study found that even the highest level career women face a major wage
divide.. . . .

The reason women devalue their pay worth stems from deeply ingrained cultural
beliefs, psychologists say. A number of studies show that women fall prey to
a "depressed entitlement effect", which refers to a minority group's tendency
to devalue itself compared to the society's elite group, says. . . Research
by Major, et al, shows that women and other minority groups often come to
view the greater advantages by the elite group, no matter how unfair, as "the
way things should be."  At work, the notion becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy
when women accept lower wages because they feel they must deserve less then
a man.

Given the psychological complexities, how can women bridge the wage gulf?

response 2 of 17:

Aug 8 22:01 UTC 1997

Fascinating question.

I wish I knew the answers...

response 4 of 17:

Aug 9 15:20 UTC 1997

It sounds so easy, the way you put it, Valerie.  Why then, do so many women
have so much much difficulty doing the things you suggest?  And why,
even
though they know how self-deprecating undervalueing their work is, they
continue to do so.  I really appreciate your example of eliminating the "just"
in a request.  I have been suggesting to my daughter, that she elminate
all the qualifiers she uses when making a request of anyone else, but,
unfortunately, she continues to do it.  She says she doesn't want to
appear "too pushy".  There is an "enabling fiction" rationalization for
all self defeating behavior which perpetuates the behavior and makes it
easier for someone not to change.

response 6 of 17:

Dec 16 02:07 UTC 1997

Maybe the problem isn't that pushiness is considered undesirable in a
woman, but that it isn't in a man.  Most people agree that the "average"
used car salesman is a really low grade of scum, but they don't seem
to connect the "man" and "scum" parts of the equation at all.

I spend a big part of my time at work doing purchasing.  The suppliers
i deal with are generally highly integrated, gender-wise.  Especially
at the large, unspecialized distributors, all the salespeople live in a 
pushy gotta-push-all-the-time-to-push-up-sales-and-profits atmosphere.
If there's any difference between how "well" men & women learn to be
pushy in that context, i can't discern it.  Their various "here's the
hot specials of the day", "much easier for you if you just buy it all
from me", etc., ad nauseum pushy sales pitches get really stale, *really*
soon.  It would be *really* nice if pushiness was considered more
obnoxious, without reference to the gender of the pusher. 

response 8 of 17:

Dec 18 20:53 UTC 1997

I understand, Walter.   But "strong, assertive" isn't necessarily
equivalent to "pushy".    A woman who stands up for herself runs
a greater risk of being called "pushy,"  or "a bitch" in some
situations.  Even if she's not being aggressive, just assertive.

response 10 of 17:

Dec 19 11:56 UTC 1997

I agree with Mary.  "Aggressive" is all you have to tell me about
anyone, male or female, and I'll go out of my way to avoid them.

response 12 of 17:

Dec 19 17:02 UTC 1997

i've heard that term a lot, "high maintenence".
i must confess i am puzzled.
can anyone explain it to me?

response 14 of 17:

Dec 19 19:43 UTC 1997

There's a fine line between assertiveness and aggressiveness, and it
shouldn't be surprising that there are differences of opinion about
exactly where the line lies.  I agree completely with md - I always avoid
aggressive people without regard to their sex. 

I have heard women complain before that they are looked down upon for
acting aggressively, and a man wouldn't be.  Well, the world needs less
aggressiveness, not more, IMO.  So the answer to that particular gender
gap (if it exists - I really don't see it, myself) is to censure
aggressiveness in men, not condone it in women. 

response 16 of 17:

Dec 20 01:28 UTC 1997

Regarding the main thread - I kind of enjoy pushy and
aggressive people.  They add to the tapestry.  I don't
feel my response to them is anything but under my
control.  I know that sounds like fake-Zen but it is
how I feel.  And the sex of the aggressive person makes
no difference whatsoever unless, of course, they are
being aggressive about having sex.