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| Author |
Message |
aruba
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Pornography
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Mar 3 03:10 UTC 1995 |
A coworker of mine said today that pornography is not a problem that causes
men to treat women as objects. The problem, he said, is that there are some
really *stupid* men who, after going to a topless bar, conclude that all
women want to be treated like the women in the bar. And does it make sense
to, say, ban or condemn pornography because there are a few stupid people
in the world?
I don't know how much of that I agree with, but I wasn't quick to dismiss
it. The fact is that most men *can* tell the difference between a picture
in a magazine and a real person.
What do the rest of you think?
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| 159 responses total. |
brighn
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response 1 of 159:
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Mar 3 06:08 UTC 1995 |
Pornography is a problem only inasmuch as it is a symptom of general
social maliase about sex.
I stopped playing Doom because I became hostile after playing it. It
struck a chord in me. I have seen it affect others quite the opposite.
I am not going down to yon Softward Dealers Associates because my
personality is incompatible with Doom. I simply don't play.
My problem with pornograhpy comes about when the models are being
forced into it. There is nothing wrong with a woman (or a man)
creating sexual explicit fantasies for money or pleasure. The
issue of objectification leading to rape (especially date rape)
is one of people not being able to separate fantasy from reality.
If we ban pornography *for that reason*, we nned to ban Bugs Bunny
so that people won't go around dropping anvils on each others' heads.
There... was that suitably incoherent.
?
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chelsea
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response 2 of 159:
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Mar 4 13:59 UTC 1995 |
I consider pornography a slightly different form of masturbation. Instead
of simply imagining a body for sexual gratification there is a picture or
photograph or story to help the fantasy along. And as long as the author
or models weren't coerced into producing the material there is no victim.
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popcorn
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response 3 of 159:
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Mar 5 13:19 UTC 1995 |
This response has been erased.
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simcha
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response 4 of 159:
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Mar 6 13:33 UTC 1995 |
valerie, there are men who like real women better than magazine
glossies who make you uncomfortable...they don't read
porno magazines but can undress you with their eyes. I know
pronography when I see it and I know a gentleman when I meet one.
Just can't defne either perfectly tho'!
To me, anything etween truly consenting adults is okay. Children
arent' ok when it comes to sex. But anthing else, I don't care what
a person looks at. And I don't think porno makes someone behave badly...
we're responsible for our actions, thus we can choose our behaviors
(tho it can affect attitudes).
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omni
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response 5 of 159:
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Mar 7 06:58 UTC 1995 |
I've always thought of Valerie as a person, and not a sex symbol. Which
is typical of my thinking when it comes to women. I think mags such as
Playboy and Penthouse degrade women from what they should be: People first
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miranda
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response 6 of 159:
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Mar 28 19:44 UTC 1995 |
View hidden response.
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miranda
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response 7 of 159:
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Mar 28 20:07 UTC 1995 |
Pornography is sexual junk food. Most guys with whom I have gone out
have a copy of Playboy or something like that lying around (I am told
that they buy it for the articles), but I don't think that I have bee
objectified as a result. Canada is, unfortunately, more paternalistic
with regards to pornography because of arguments that pictures of
consenting adults participating in sexual activity are somehow demeaning
to men and women. I could never understand why. If a man sees me only
as a body, I don't want to know him but I don't think that it is
pornography that makes him a jerk.
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aruba
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response 8 of 159:
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Mar 29 00:39 UTC 1995 |
Yes! That's exactly the point my coworker was making in #0.
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clees
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response 9 of 159:
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Apr 10 11:19 UTC 1996 |
Pornography is called considered vile and low when people call it
as such. It all comes down to values and standards. But I agree
that pornography is pornography when the human body is
exploited for money. Money never is and will be a good motive
to start actions from.
That less developed people can change their attitudeas a rsult of such,
is in my point of view a rather sad case.
Personally I couldn't care less for pictures/movies/videos containing
explicit sexual acts. Doesn't turn me on a bit. A person, on the other
hand, might.
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chelsea
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response 10 of 159:
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Apr 10 12:38 UTC 1996 |
Do you ever go to work in the morning and stay all day simply
because you need the money? Isn't that vile, doing something
simply for the cash-ola? Heck, I bet there are wives out there
fucking their husbands just to keep the home scene from blowing
up. Is the wife exploiting her body? And who are "less developed
people"?
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beeswing
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response 11 of 159:
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Apr 10 23:18 UTC 1996 |
I dunno. I just don't think that anything positive cAn come from pornography.
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mcpoz
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response 12 of 159:
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Apr 11 01:21 UTC 1996 |
re: #11 - agree - but a lot bad can come from it. It is dehumanizing.
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beeswing
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response 13 of 159:
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Apr 11 05:24 UTC 1996 |
I think so too mcpoz. What I really woner about is the women (and men) who
decied to be part of it, by being dancers, in magazines, in movies. From what
I have heard, dancers can make good money. But why do women have to resort
to flashing their boobs in order to do well financially? I don't know about
it making it influence someone's behavior exactly... but how can it build
up a person? How would it make you a better person? It won't. And I learned
a long time ago that there is a concept of GIGO... Garbage In, Garbage OUt.
I watched Beavis and Buthead for awhile and realized I was screaming
"fartknocker" and "buttmunch" when I encountered bad drivers on the highway.
Not intelligent, I admit. But just 30 minutes a day impacted me that much.
I hear the "It's ok for adults" thing a lot too. But parents, think about
it... would you want your son/daughter watching this later on, or being a part
of it? Hell no. The last thing you'd imagine is your son, whom you raised to
be moral and appreciate the good in things, slobbering and getting excited
over a porn movie or in a theater, with women portraying the ultimate sex
object role. They're going to tolerate what we tolerate.
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aruba
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response 14 of 159:
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Apr 11 05:56 UTC 1996 |
Re #11: How can anything good come out of bungi jumping, or snorkeling,
or looking at a famous painting? Do they make someone a better person?
Yet these are not things we regard with disgust. Your last paragraph in
#13, beeswing, seems like a blatant attempt to push people's buttons
without providing any real compelling arguments. Kind of reminds me of
Pat Buchanan.
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beeswing
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response 15 of 159:
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Apr 11 21:40 UTC 1996 |
This response has been erased.
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mcpoz
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response 16 of 159:
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Apr 12 01:01 UTC 1996 |
I think most forms of "risk-taking" are dangerous and it is hard to quantify
the good from it. If the adrenaline rush of bungee jumping outweighs the
risks of becoming an omlette or micro-stroking, then so be it.
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beeswing
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response 17 of 159:
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Apr 12 01:25 UTC 1996 |
Ah, perhaps. But snoerkeling is relatively safe, as is liooking at paintings.
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chelsea
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response 18 of 159:
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Apr 12 03:25 UTC 1996 |
I don't tend to think of strippers as garbage. Or the people who
go to see them as losers. Or acts of erotica as immoral. Or any
sexual acts between consenting adults as wrong. Pornography is
obviously very enjoyable material for some and if a woman is victimized
by involvement in the industry then she was a victim in waiting and
if it wasn't porn flicks it would have been something else she would
have found to abuse herself.
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beeswing
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response 19 of 159:
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Apr 12 04:00 UTC 1996 |
I didn't say strippers were garbage. Just in a very defeating occupation, for
themselves and for womankind. I don't think they are all victims in waiting.
Some may stumble into in, some may be lured by the money it pays. I admire
anyone who works to, say, feed their kids, it's just sad that this is what
some women have to do in order to earn teh money to do so. beats prostitution
I guess, but still. And it seems the porn industry is what leads to the drug
use, the prostitution, and so forth. Not for everyone... but it hapens a lot.
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aruba
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response 20 of 159:
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Apr 12 06:00 UTC 1996 |
Re #15: I still don't see the distinction between the activities I cited
and pornography. All are entertainment. There's no accounting for taste.
As for my inflammatory comparison between you and Pat Buchanan, of course
I can't read minds - I call 'em like I see 'em. Your statement read like
an attempt at manipulation to me. The fact that people are responsible
for their own reactions (I agree with you there) does not mean there is no
such thing as manipulation.
I'm afraid I don't see the connection between the Agora math item and this
one.
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popcorn
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response 21 of 159:
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Apr 12 06:36 UTC 1996 |
This response has been erased.
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beeswing
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response 22 of 159:
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Apr 12 14:52 UTC 1996 |
You don't see the connection in the same way I don't see the connection
between Picasso and porno. Valerie says it the best in #21. And as for
manpulation, I can't force that either. People choose to interpret it that
way and act accordingly.
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iggy
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response 23 of 159:
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Apr 12 22:22 UTC 1996 |
and, on a similar subject:
why is it ok to have sex with someone, and ok for you to
just give someone money, but not ok to combine the two?
i really do not understand why prostitution is illegal.
who is it hurting?
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mcpoz
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response 24 of 159:
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Apr 12 22:58 UTC 1996 |
The issue of Porno goes back to how you perceive other people, as humans or
objects. I don't know if I can explain this clearly and to everyones
satisfaction, but consider the following:
A) You are a bright young female professional. You work in an office with
both men and women. Your supervisor is a male who is a connoisseur of
Pornography, topless bars, etc.
Would you be willing to trust him in guiding your career development and
not worry about how he perceives/treats you? Do you think this person
will give you the same opportunities as the males? Is it conceivable that
he can "turn off that interest" or keep it from clouding his judgement
when he decides who gets the big promotion, raise, etc?
B) YOu find out that your children's grade school teacher is very much into
porno. Do you have second thoughts about keeping them there?
I guess the point I am trying to make is this dehumanizing has the net effect
of supporting the sexist activities result in things like glass ceilings.
Ok, off the soap box again.
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