Backlash among the younger generation

Mar 6 06:43 UTC 1994

I'm facing the day I thought I never would see.  My teenaged, usually
pretty sensitive to justice issues, son has informed me that he's
quite certain that feminism is just another form of sexism used to
put men down.  He says that feminism might have been needed once --but
hat women are equal to men now, or even better off because in addition
to having equal access to male privilege, we also get to expect
candy and flowrs, jewelry, and cards on special holidays like 
our birthdays and valentines day.  or even on dates we get to
be treated.

I've tried to explain to him that

A) mature people understand that equality means just that.  The women
and men I know as feminists have either decided that they don't value
the "romantic" customs like flowers and candy for either sex, or they
value them for both.  

B) women most assuredly *do not* have equal access to the "male
privileges.  We make 80cents for every dollar a man makes at the same job, 
have a tougher time getting promotions beyond a certain point or even
training for the jobs that might pay better.

I tried pointing that there are only 2 women out of 10 members of
the senate.  He said if more women were interested in running there would
be better representation.

I feel like I'm bashing my head against a wall here.  He doubts
anything I've been able to comeup with.  (I don't get into wrangles
with him abut it --these conversations have taken place over several months.)
What, if anything, can I bring up to help him see that, whether he
thinks equality for women is a good idea or not, we definitely don'y
have it the same as men, much less better.?

How would *you* handle this?

response 2 of 14:

Mar 7 03:07 UTC 1994

I'd start out by recommending that he read Deborah Tannen's book
_You Just Don't Understand_ (discussing differences in language
styles, some of which are gender related) and continue by finding
out exactly what kind of "feminism" it is that he thinks is no
longer necessary.  You may not be quite as far apart as it sounds.

response 4 of 14:

Apr 26 13:51 UTC 2002

I actually use the word "equalist" - not feminist.

response 6 of 14:

Apr 26 14:08 UTC 2002

#4, Yes equalist, that would be the ideal word in a relationship. Not 
the same but very equal.

If women try to correct social injustice they can use own, relatively 
isolated groups, as well. We are free in this, I think.

But you are completely right, a relation is risky if one party thinks 
it has more rights. 

I don't like to talk about rights. In a realtion between equals, you 
give room and it's much nicer talking.

#5, which rights do you want more my dear Papa?

I leave now Grex, for a time. I wish all the women the best that's 
possible and of course the men as well.

response 8 of 14:

Apr 27 01:42 UTC 2002

You've got a perceptive teen age son.

The BIG LIE:  "We make 80cents for every dollar a man makes at the same job"

Facts:  (1) Single, never-married women living alone make more than single
never married men living alone.  (2) Women working part-time make 115% the
money that men working part time make.  (3)  That 80 cents figure is not
adjusted for: education level, type of work, hours worked, or years on the
job.

response 10 of 14:

Apr 28 20:45 UTC 2002

re#8 Where do you get your facts, klg. All the data I have seen 
suggests that single never married women who live alone make about the 
same (not more) than single never married men who live alone. 

It is true that the 80 cents on the dollar figure (although I usally 
hear 70 cents on the dollar) doesnt take into account education level, 
type of work, hours worked or years on the job. Women probably earn 
less as a group because it is *much* more common for a woman to take 
time off for raising children which costs her for the rest of her life. 
The point, of course, is that economic disparity between genders might 
be more a result of cultural things rather than employer 
discrimination. 


I dont mind the term 'feminist' at all. Of course I think laws should 
be 'equalist" but I think certain things definately do have more to do 
with women than they do with men and anything that has to do with that 
would be 'feminist'. For example, a book like "Our Bodies, Ourselves" 
would be 'feminist' but that isnt a bad thing in my mind. It is ok to 
be a little bit feminist. 

response 12 of 14:

Apr 29 12:17 UTC 2002

In my country women with the *same* functions earn still more than 10 % 
less then comparable men, with different per work group, work time, and 
age. Of course there are top women most in modern industries who earn 
many times the average of men, as well. I don't see it as a simple 
issue. The different figures point to the same, I think. For me the 
issue of equal chances is more important.

In this country you see two trents women get higher jobs and women are 
caring more for their children, like she (of Bush).

I think feminism has more goals than earnings as well.

response 14 of 14:

May 31 18:56 UTC 2002

I'd like to know where the article ran, but yes, it does sound very
encouraging.