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| Author |
Message |
rcurl
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The Water Plumbing Item
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Nov 15 06:00 UTC 1997 |
Water, water, everywhere....
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| 73 responses total. |
rcurl
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response 1 of 73:
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Nov 15 06:11 UTC 1997 |
Sigh...I finally called a plumber after doing my own work for years. We
were sitting in the kitchen Thursday night when a drip started from the
ceiling...a quick run found a leak from a pipe going to a tub valve in
a pipe cupboard on the second floor. There was a shutoff valve, so I
studied the problem, and decided that the coupling between the pipe and the
faucet assembly had developed a hairline crack. What with a 30 year old
house and a family that insisted they had to have a shower ASAP, and
expecting that if I took the cracked coupling to a hardware store they
would laugh and say "we haven't seen one of those in years!".....I called
a plumber Friday a.m. He came within two hours, was thin enough to fit into
the pipe cupboard, and had an assortment of couplings in his tookbox, one
of which was OK - presto, 15 minutes of work and it was done. It wasn't
cheap, but it was fast and good. I have been feeling a bit ashamed of
not having tried to do the job myself, though.... At least I diagnosed
the problem so the plumber did not have to spend time finding it - and
I waited on him with light and tools, so my self respect is still somewhat
intact... 8^}.
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scott
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response 2 of 73:
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Nov 15 12:44 UTC 1997 |
I've done similar calls to professionals. When I replaced my outdoor faucet,
I got stuck on a tee made from a *huge* chunk of brass, which I couldn't get
hot enough to make a reliable connection. The plumber had a nice, hot
acetylene torch which made quick work of it.
Imagine the look on my face when I had it all together and the water back on,
then managed to pull the connection apart with my bare hands. ;)
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rcurl
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response 3 of 73:
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Nov 15 18:41 UTC 1997 |
Wet?
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n8nxf
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response 4 of 73:
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Nov 17 12:54 UTC 1997 |
Sweating pipe with a propane torch can be difficult at times. Water
in the pipe can make it very difficult since the water has to boil off
before the pipe will get hot enough to melt the solder. However, the
only time so far that I had to resort to a hotter flame was when I was
trying to silver solder a 1" copper pipe on an air conditioning system
I was helping install. I got enough heat by using a MAP gas cylinder
instead of a propane cylinder. Propane will also burn hotter if burnt
it with pure oxygen instead of air.
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scott
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response 5 of 73:
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Nov 17 17:12 UTC 1997 |
Well, the usual (recent) stampted copper sleeves were easy to sweat into a
solid connection. But propane can only generate so much heat...
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keesan
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response 6 of 73:
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Feb 4 02:49 UTC 1998 |
We are running a revent through a wall and wonder how far back from the front
of the studs the pipe is supposed to be. If it is 1.5", we only have 1.5"
space for the PVC, which is slightly bigger. Can we use copper in that area,
and how do we join it to PVC? For electrical it is 1 1/4" spacing from the
front of the studs, is plumbing the same? If so, we can shave the studs.
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n8nxf
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response 7 of 73:
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Feb 4 12:37 UTC 1998 |
I don't think plumbing has to be 1.5" behind the front of the stud like
electrical. Otherwise one couldn't run pipe larger than 1/2" through
a stud wall between two rooms. They even sell 3" shc 30 pipe that has
an OD of just under 3.5" for running through 2X4 stud walls. Either
way, the plumbing inspector can answer that. I do know that you have
to use nail plates where pipe runs through studs.
You can join PCV to Cu with couplings they sell just for that purpose.
(I've started plumbing my house this week too. Lots to learn!)
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keesan
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response 8 of 73:
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Feb 5 00:32 UTC 1998 |
Klaus, if you finish your plumbing this week and have leftover PVC cement,
we need just a little bit to do the vent stack where it goes through the
atttic insulation. Does anyone else have a little extra cement? We are not
exactly running piping through studs but between two sideways studs.
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n8nxf
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response 9 of 73:
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Feb 5 13:56 UTC 1998 |
Sure, it's out at the house but I will make a point to bring it back with
me today. You also need to use primer. If the inspector sees that you
didn't (The primer as a stain in it so he can tell.) he'll make you do
it over again. (I'm sure you knew that.... Just wanted to make sure.)
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keesan
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response 10 of 73:
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Feb 5 19:11 UTC 1998 |
Many thanks, but make sure you are finished with your plumbing first, we are
not in a big hurry and can insulate the front of the house first. Where
should we pick it up in Ann Arbor when you are sure you don't need it?
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keesan
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response 11 of 73:
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Feb 11 05:20 UTC 1998 |
Does anyone know the name of the material used for house sewers, probably some
sort of asbestos cement product, that the tree roots are always growing
through. And what years was it used in Ann Arbor, so we can tell if we have
it (in a 1947 house).
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scott
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response 12 of 73:
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Feb 11 12:06 UTC 1998 |
Might that be Orangeburg (sp?)? It's what the guy who inspected my house was
talking about when he mentioned sewer lines that go bad. (I probably don't
have it in my 1950 house).
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n8nxf
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response 13 of 73:
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Feb 11 13:17 UTC 1998 |
I don't remember what it is called, however I think it was used in the 60's.
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keesan
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response 14 of 73:
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Feb 11 23:54 UTC 1998 |
Thanks, Jim thought it was Green-something. He is safe.
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gibson
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response 15 of 73:
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Feb 13 03:14 UTC 1998 |
I don't know a name but I think they were just clay crocks.
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gracel
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response 16 of 73:
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Feb 13 21:28 UTC 1998 |
My father called it Orangeburg tile. We had it in a 1948 house, replaced
the sewer line in 1983.
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keesan
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response 17 of 73:
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Feb 14 04:28 UTC 1998 |
Was it clay tile or asbestos-fiber cement? (Orange or grey?). We have a 1947
house where the sewer needs routing every year from tree roots. If it is clay
tile, how would the roots be getting through, at the joins?
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rcurl
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response 18 of 73:
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Feb 14 05:31 UTC 1998 |
Usually. We've had that problem, but our sewer pipe is iron (Ithink.....).
I put a slug of copper sulfate (purchasable in hardware stores locally for
this purpose) down the line once a year when root growth should be
at its most prolific. I do worry (a little) about a) copper sulfate attacks
iron by electrochemical replacement, and b) the copper sulfate will kill
microflora in the sewage until it gets diluted. On the other hand, copper
is an essential element for plant growth, and it is also precipitated
as insoluble copper sulfide in the sewage treatment plant, I figure
limited use is non-detrimental w.r.t. b). Now a).....
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keesan
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response 19 of 73:
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Feb 14 15:59 UTC 1998 |
We just snake it out once a year (after the sewer backs up into the basement).
The neighbors borrow our snake. Did you know you can get replacement tips
for the snake that bolt on at Wolverine Supply? (They did not know, we had
to call the manufacturer). The tip only pokes a hole through, putting a cage
made of expanded metal bolted on to the tip snags the hair-type roots, but
this has not been necessary for a while, since they started removing the last
of the elm trees. The replacement trees have not grown big enough yet.
How long do you think the copper would have to sit in the pipe for any
noticeable attack on the iron? And isn't there copper in the water anyway
from everyone's copper piping or is it too dilute to matter? (Or safely
coated with precipitated calcium compounds).
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rcurl
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response 20 of 73:
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Feb 14 20:42 UTC 1998 |
Essentially no copper enters the water supply from copper piping. Copper
is quite inert in a non-acidic system. There is a greater hazard from the
lead in the solder that used to be used for copper tubing in homes.
It is nearly 100 feet from our sewer cleanout in the basement to the
street drain. We have had it routed out several times in the past. I
figure its worth the ca. $60 for them to use their heavy duty motor
driven equipment (and do the cleanup).
I flush the copper sulfate crystals into the line with a few gallons of
water, and leave it for a few hours. I think the main effect is to diffuse
a CuSO4 higher than the plant roots can stand into the crevices through
which they enter. But I really don't know the degree of attack on the iron.
It takes a week or so for a nail to dissolve in CuSO4 solution....the
short treatments I use should not be too server.
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keesan
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response 21 of 73:
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Feb 14 21:36 UTC 1998 |
The city water treatment plant told us they intentionally leave the water
somewhat alkaline to avoid dissolving the copper.
Can you describe what happens at the sewer treatment plant, I have not been.
What happens with drains over 100' long, are there routers made?
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rcurl
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response 22 of 73:
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Feb 15 06:48 UTC 1998 |
Briefly...at the sewage treatment plant the sewage is filtered to remove
shoes, dead rats, and other large debris, and then digested with bacteria.
This can be done partly anaerobilically, to produce methane, which can be
used as fuel to run the plant, but eventually the sewage is digested
with bacteria aerobically, which is a much more thorough digestion of
the organic matter (called BOD = biological oxygen demand). The resulting
slurry is filtered and the sludge (solids) landfilled or used as a soil
conditioner, and the liquid is disinfected and discharged. This describes
primary (first filtration) and secondary (digestion) treatment. Tertiary
treatment can destroy all the chemicals that still remain in the effluent
by either combusting them with oxygen (in solution), or by treatment in
constructed wetlands (converting the remaining nutrients to cattails, etc.)
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keesan
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response 23 of 73:
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Feb 15 19:12 UTC 1998 |
Does Ann Arbor sell its sludge to tree farms? Does it practice tertiary
treatment, and what cities do (if you know). We also do anaerobic and then
aerobic treatment of our compost - it sits in closed buckets for a while,
where it starts stinking (or freezes over the winter) but this seems to not
interfere with the later aerobic composting. Any problems that you know of
with this method, as long as the fermented stuff gets buried deeply?
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i
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response 24 of 73:
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Feb 15 23:26 UTC 1998 |
There was an article in the A^2 Observer a few months ago that covered
A^2's water & sewage system pretty well. (Though it focused more on
the people & pipes between the treatment plants.)
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