Should Grex join the Electronic Frontier Foundation

Feb 9 18:07 UTC 1996

The file /u/janc/EFF.join tells how to join the Electronic Frontier
Foundation.  There is a classification of "Sysop/Recruiter" memberships,
which cost only $10, but you won't be able to renew at that level unless
you get ten people to join (there is a slot for "where did you see the
form" that EFF uses to count how many people you got to join).

I'd like to propose that Grex become a EFF member.

(Actually, it sounds like this Sysop/Recruiter class is aimed at smaller
systems than Grex.  We might want to check into other arrangements that
might be possible.)

You can get more info on the EFF from http://www.eff.org/ .

response 2 of 43:

Feb 9 19:35 UTC 1996

   Yes, I think we should do it.  If we need 10 people for renewal, 
fine--I'll be one of those 10.

response 4 of 43:

Feb 9 21:45 UTC 1996

What is the rejoin rate if you don't get 10 more to join? That is, what
is the cost of one (1) membership of the Grex corporate body? Individuals
can join if they want, but that's not a Grex membership. You know how
users are - here today and gone tomorrow  8^{.

response 6 of 43:

Feb 10 08:17 UTC 1996

Re 4 - the rejoin rate if you fail to get 10 is the advocate rate ($65/annum)

response 8 of 43:

Feb 10 17:05 UTC 1996

$40.

Here is the info I copied and pasted from their website at 
http://www.eff.org/EFFdocs/memform_eff.html

  ___ Fellow membership.......$500
  ___ Benefactor membership...$250
  ___ Pioneer membership......$100
  ___ Advocate membership.....$65
  ___ Regular membership......$40
  ___ Student membership......$20
  ___ SysOp membership........$10*

        * SysOp members are required to bring in 10 new members to 
      renew at the SysOp membership rate (otherwise Advocate rates apply).
      Send queries to membership@eff.org for more info.  NOTE: CIS,
      AOL, etc. forum sysops and co-sysops ARE eligible for SysOp membership.

response 10 of 43:

Feb 11 08:29 UTC 1996

  Personally, I would prefer Grex not spend membership-raised money on
memberships in political organizations.  I'll choose what other
organizations to support on my own, and don't want Grex as a middleperson
divvying up my contribution like United Way.  It's not a strong
preference, but that's my feeling.

response 12 of 43:

Feb 11 16:20 UTC 1996

If the "Grex" membership is only $10, how about if someone puts
up the $10 from their own pocket to buy the membership?  Or
the ten people who join could each add an extra dollar.  Even I
could afford that.  >8)

response 14 of 43:

Feb 11 19:38 UTC 1996

   No, it is not a bad use of money.  Because are *are* talking about
the survival of the Grex as we know it, people.

   Grex is right at the forefront of all this.  Even before this
idiocy showed up in congress we were one of the more open systems
on the net.

   Our rights in cyberspace have gotten politicized.  Get used to it.
Grex needs to get off its ass *and join*.  The money can come from
others, instead of the treasurey I'm sure.  But we need to join,
becuase the world around us has changed for the worse.

response 16 of 43:

Feb 12 01:26 UTC 1996

  Why, Arnold?  If we lived in a perfect world, then I would agree that
Grex, as a hobby system would have no reason/need to join a political
entity.
  But, we don't live in such a world.  We live in a country where the
religious right is (and has been) mounting a campaign to make the
country in their image of the ideal.  You bet your ass that a lot
of organizations on "the other side" have joined their sides 
organizations, and so should we.

response 18 of 43:

Feb 12 06:48 UTC 1996

I am a member of the EFF, but I would put up the $10 for Grex's sysop
membership, if we decide to do that.

It is reasonable for Grex to take up membership in the EFF in my opinion.
It would take an official action by the board or members.

As far as its putting 501(c)(3) in jeopardy is concerned, that's nonsense.

From their web pages, I will quote these two tidbits. Right at the top of 
their home page, http://www.eff.org appears the following:

THE ELECTRONIC FRONTIER FOUNDATION
A non-profit civil liberties organization working in the public interest 
to protect privacy, free expression, and access to online resources and 
information.

and at the end of their membership form, 
http://www.eff.org/EFFdocs/memform_eff.html, is the following:

The Electronic Frontier Foundation is a nonprofit, 501(c)(3) organization
supported by contributions from individual members, corporations and
private foundations. Memberships and donations are tax-deductible. 
Merchandise orders are not tax-deductible. EFF's tax exemption
number is 04-3091431.

response 20 of 43:

Feb 12 09:41 UTC 1996

it's a license to buy/purchase "things" withOUT having to pay ales
sales tax IF the "things" are forthe entity.
  
i've used numbers like that for decades (did i say "decades," sheesh).
the number itself might be like an EIN or SS#, butthere are
"attachments" to its privileges ... that might be the way to describe it.

response 22 of 43:

Feb 13 05:59 UTC 1996

Re #20: no, that's a Michigan Sales Tax Exemption, which is harder to
get than 501(c)3 exemption. The EIN is a *prerequisite* for any
status with the IRS - tax exempt or not. Then, with an EIN you can
apply for 501(c)3, and after you have both of those, you can try
for State sales tax exemption. The first answer is always no. Some
vendors don't charge 501(c)3 exempt organizations sales tax, but they
have to absorb that cost if the organization doesn't have a state exemption.

Federally tax exempt organizations can spend up to something like 15%
of their funds to lobby. Lobbying is "influencing legislation". However
there is a side to that which does not affect exemption, and that is being
a source of information. I don't follow much of what EFF does, but to
the extent it busies itself with pointing out the consequences of various
legislation - technical, economic, political, etc - it is not lobbying.
Pointing out that legislation violates the constitution is a scholarly
activity, and is not lobbying. However, in this case, I think the EFF
is lobbying...

response 24 of 43:

Feb 13 15:32 UTC 1996

   That sounds quite reasonable to me Peter.