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popcorn
Planning Grex Upgrades: A List Of Ideas Mark Unseen   Aug 31 14:14 UTC 1995

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78 responses total.
n8nxf
response 1 of 78: Mark Unseen   Aug 31 16:49 UTC 1995

I enjoyed Usenet when it was up.  I'd like to see that again.
ajax
response 2 of 78: Mark Unseen   Aug 31 21:04 UTC 1995

  My priority list: reliable system, faster CPU, faster net connection,
more lines (9600s pref.), and lastly News.  News just seems like such
a commodity, you can buy it anywhere, while there's only one Grex!  :)
Out of curiosity, what would be the next logical step up from the Sun
4/260?  I might prioritize "faster CPU" more than once in that list if
there's a cheap next step (e.g. 4/330 boards are under $500, but I doubt
you can just replace the 4/260 board with that).
steve
response 3 of 78: Mark Unseen   Aug 31 22:25 UTC 1995

   You're right, we'd have to get memory too.  But $550 for a 300
is getting there.
   I'll point out that of the five items you mention, the first
two are tightly coupled together, at least when talking about
the disk bug.
   One of the other really important parts of Grex is the router.
Now, I know that we're still having the telnet problem from various
points in Merit, but I am delighted to say that the link has been
in continuous operation for 48+ hours several times in a row now.
It isn't perfect, and Gryps still needs brain surgery, but I think
the phone line has stabilized (ie, less noise) such that the link
modem is more happy with life.
raven
response 4 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 1 02:05 UTC 1995

        It seems to me that a faster internet connection is going to be
neccessary if Grex is going to continue to grow.  It is also neccessary
if we are going to have usenet at any kind of usable speed.  Does anyone
know how much an ISDN modem is & the monthly rate for the connection?
steve
response 5 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 1 04:25 UTC 1995

  The answer of course, is "it depends".  The full cost rate would be
about $500 a month for the Intenet connection, plus two ISDN termination
points (about $60/month for both), plus the hardware needed to do it
all.
  Now, prices may well have changed since I looked last, and of
course the hardware price always fluxuates.
  But botton line, its likely to be a significant fraction of
our current total costs.  Thats no reason not to do it, of
course, just that it will take some planning, etc.
lilmo
response 6 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 1 04:48 UTC 1995

Could I get the briefest of rundowns on the "Internet policy" to be 
implemented, with particular emphasis on the deifferences between said
policy and current practice?  (re: #0)
ajax
response 7 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 1 04:55 UTC 1995

Lately an all-in-one ISDN hardware package has made a splash for $399,
including a built-in NT1.  It's called a Digi DATAFIRE or something.
Good info at http://alumni.caltech.edu/~dank/, or comp.dcom.isdn's FAQ.
 
Some big factors in the last round of prioritizations were cost and
time/effort for the different improvements, and they'd be useful again.
mdw
response 8 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 1 06:04 UTC 1995

The Digi DataFire is intended for single-user use.  As such, it includes
features irrelevant to us, which offering potentially formidable
obstacles for integration into our environment.  Features irrelevant to
us:
 * ability to "connect to many different sites on an as-needed basis"
 * reduce communcations charges by up to 60% by recognizing "LAN
        administration chatter" and disconnecting.
 * easy administration.  network administration can be handled over the
        ISDN link from any PC on the network.  A central LAN
        administrator can monitor, setup, & remove connections remotely.
 * supported products:
        MicroSoft Windows NT 3.1, 3.5, Windows for Workgroups 3.11
        Novel ODI (client)

These are irrelevant or obstacles to us, because:
 * we'll only be connecting to one site.
 * our one site will keep us busy 7/24
 * we don't need or want the ability for remote users to
        reconfigure the ISDN link.  Indeed, quite the
        reverse, we *don't* want this ability!
 * we want it to work under freebsd or a suitable
        low-cost high performance alternative (netbsd,linux,bsdi),
        not under an an expensive fancy gui single-user OS
        such as windows. (or netware, which is $$$ and
        functionality [IPX] we don't need.)

The key thing to look for here with ISDN cards is drivers or support
for:
        freebsd
        netbsd
        linux
        bsdi
(and, of course, US telcom support.) If it works for any of these 4,
chances are we can make it work for us, that it will fit well into our
environment, and that the maker will be on "our wavelength".  A maker
who has an integrated package for windows is much less likely to be
interested in us; they've invested a lot in windows,they've signed all
sorts of proprietary non-disclosure agreements, and they need to make
their investment up with high volume low overhead sales.  It's still
worth asking them, of course -- but, for instance, in the case of Digi,
the product to inquire about would not be "DataFire", but instead, the
"Digi PC IMAC".  It may actually be the same card, but it's marketed
just a bit differently - whether it's "different enough" depends on how
hungry the company is.
popcorn
response 9 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 1 12:11 UTC 1995

This response has been erased.

otterwmn
response 10 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 1 20:30 UTC 1995

Y'all are flying way over my head, so I'll just say that UseNet would be very
nice.
nestene
response 11 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 2 05:23 UTC 1995

I've taken the command "!menumore /usr/local/grexdoc/archives/prvote/prvote02"
and put it in a script.  Instead of typing all that, you can type:

~nestene/internet

which will do the same thing.
(At least it works for me.)
selena
response 12 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 2 05:41 UTC 1995

        I think USEnet is the last item on the list, IMNSHO. Why bother?
Those who are members can already access it, anyway, and the faster
CPU/more memory/faster link will benefit everyone, even those who
link out for their USEnet.
robh
response 13 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 2 12:03 UTC 1995

True, but Usenet is - well, can still be on occasion - a useful
source of information.  I'd like to see it available to non-members
again, like it was back in the ancient days.
scott
response 14 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 2 13:22 UTC 1995

I'd like to see Usenet back, but in some limited form that prevents it from
eating up regular Grex performance.  Maybe a Usenet host you have to explicity
connect to?
mcpoz
response 15 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 2 16:10 UTC 1995

I have never used Usenet.  I have a rough concept in my mind that I can
subscribe to certain subjects and then get anything written on the news
services which keys into my subjects.  Is that correct?  If so, I would like
to have such a service available.  Is it available elsewhere by telneting?
robh
response 16 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 2 16:35 UTC 1995

It's not so much based on key-words.  There are several thousand
different "newsgroups", each of which focusses on a particular
topics.  You can select the newsgroups for the various topics
you're interested in, and read some or all of the articles
in those newsgroups.
ajax
response 17 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 2 18:56 UTC 1995

Also, no news services are involved; the "articles" are just responses
from other participants (in Grex terminology, a "newsgroup" is a conference,
and an "article" or "post" is a response, roughly speaking).
drew
response 18 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 2 19:21 UTC 1995

When pricing internet connections, figure on the cost per kilobit of
throughput.
otterwmn
response 19 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 2 21:07 UTC 1995

ref #12: Izzat so? Is there some magical method I haven't yet discovered?
steve
response 20 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 3 01:15 UTC 1995

  You can't, Drew.  No one prices net connections that way, and I
hope they never do.  Forunately, all the commercial backbone
entities charge flat-rate pricing.  I don't think any one, or
even a group of net providers could get away with it--everyone
would flock to the others who don't.
  And since the net is inherently hard to kill, the "nasty" providers
could be routed around. 
srw
response 21 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 3 02:29 UTC 1995

When we do implement usenet, unlike the ancient times, all of the
news maintenance software would run on another computer, not grex.
This other computer would be an nntp server, and the news client
software (tin, trn, rn, takeyourpick) would still run on grex,
but would get the articles from the server.

Since the server would not be on the other side of the internet link,
which is where all servers are today, you would get your news in
finite time, perhaps even quickly.

For now, the only option is to find an nntp server on the net, and
get your news from there. You must be a grex member and extremely
patient. It helps to have a book handy to fill in the time while
waiting for news to cross the link.
robh
response 22 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 3 02:46 UTC 1995

Or run "screen" and read your mail, run PicoSpan, browse the Web,
chat in party, program, etc.  Trust me, I know.  >8)
gregc
response 23 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 3 03:26 UTC 1995

...cook dinner, conceive a child, put child through college, visit grand-
children.......

Yes, you're  right, it *is* slow.
lilmo
response 24 of 78: Mark Unseen   Sep 3 19:30 UTC 1995

Re #9 & #11:  Thanks, guys!!  :-)
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