response 1 of 171:

Apr 20 18:19 UTC 1995

  My only pref is to do whatever takes the least amount of staff time
(short of ignoring the complaints altogether).
 
  How about prepare a public FAQ letter to send to both the complainer
and complainee, one explaining Grex's open access policy and saying
how to filter people, the other saying a complaint was received and
explaining why it's nice to be nice?

response 3 of 171:

Apr 20 19:07 UTC 1995

I'm in favor of encouraging the complainer to communicate with the
offender before doing *anything* else.  Having said that, I realize
that in an awful lot of cases this will have happened, and also that
the nuisance may be widespread enough that a lot of staffers are
as familiar with it as the person complaining.

I generally agree with Rob, too.

response 5 of 171:

Apr 21 01:40 UTC 1995

   Let's do that, because it will work with some of the problems
we've had in the past.

   Unforunately, it won't work with some of the younger people
we have around here now, with the advent of Merit dialins giving
access to Grex to LOTS of people.

   If I understand the situation that might have driven Valerie
to write this item, I think I can somewhat safely say that spewing
a FAQ at them won't work.

   Basically, Grex has a pretty incredible range of people on every
day now.  I once kind of scientifically calculated that 99.8% of
the people who log into Grex were find people, and .2% were people
who tried "bad" things here (cracking pws, crashing the system, etc).

   The number of less mature people here has grown too.  While I
would not say they've done bad things, they've definately made
Grex a different place in certain ways.

response 7 of 171:

Apr 21 09:42 UTC 1995

In recent staff mail, we've had people complain about other people in
party, in the conferences, and about a person who had discovered flash,
which we had thought we blocked.  Many people seem to think staff are
supposed to act as kind of "super parents", go out and resolve
interpersonal disputes, and generally mediate and intervene in all sorts
of things.  Sometimes people get upset if a staff person doesn't
instantly go out and resolve things to their satisfaction.  It's not
clear to me, for instance, that people understand some of the tradeoffs
that went into making up grex: what it means to have an open newuser
program, what freespeech really means for the listener, and what it
means for the system to be supported entirely on a volunteer/donation
basis.  Oftentimes it seems to be just a matter of user education, but
occasionally, there are (and always will be) people who just don't get
it.  That's frustrating for all concerned, but seems to be kind of
inevitable.

Boiler-plate text to explain some of the issues would certainly be
handy, but I'm not at all sure a complete *letter* makes sense.  I've
yet to see any two situations that were exactly the same, or even
similar enough that a generic letter could have been composed that would
have covered both situations.  Sometimes it seems like all these people
are really looking for is a sympathetic ear - I'm afraid a form letter
would be worse than useless in those cases.

That applies doubly so in the case of people out to make trouble; a
forms letter explaining somebody else has complained, and asking thme to
be nice, could easily have precisely the opposite effect.  It's also
possible the person against who a complaint was registered, is in fact
innocent, or at least not guilty of the crime they've been accused of; I
am not at all sure we want to set up a system of finkdom, where users
keep finking on each other...  Unfortunately, any system that is purely
a reaction against a problem, that does not take into account the
precise nature of the problem, or of the personalities involved, is
almost certainly likely to cause worse problems than it solves, in the
long run.

response 9 of 171:

Apr 22 00:35 UTC 1995

Ah -- but do you consider your telephone installer to be a "higher
authority"?

Many of the staff people have quite limited time to spend on the system,
and were selected for their ability to do necessary work on the system,
such as kernel installs, rather than for their ability to act as "father
confessors" and "authority figures".  Indeed, I'd say most of them are
actively anti-authoritarian, and aren't likely to either enjoy or be
interested in pursuing such activities.

response 11 of 171:

Apr 22 14:05 UTC 1995

well, i'm my own telephone installer (and over the years have +never+
experienced the kind or volume of problems related here) and have
volunteered my expertise numerous times, and also comprehend
the critical differences between "authoritarian figure" and "leader."
  
And I fully understand that there are not enough "staff hours"
available - even as much as that is a contant repeat of fact.
  
I also am quite anti-authoritarian and thought that was fairly
obvious given my (publically available) history.
  
Staff (mostly with mesg n, understandably) deals with email, helpers
(mostly with mesg -h y, understandably) deals in realtime. Shift the
email if you wish.
  
Shift the telephone responsibility if you wish. Spread the burden, if
you wish.

response 13 of 171:

Apr 22 16:02 UTC 1995

   TS, the problems with the phones here are things that you can't
deal with--they are the responsibility of Ameritech.  If that were
not the case, we'd have fixed them oursevles.

response 15 of 171:

Apr 23 04:38 UTC 1995

To Plaintiff:
  We are sorry that you seem no have had difficulties with <Defendant's login>,
but staff time is very limited, and refereeing must be constrained to
dealing with the most serious cases.  <Nature of problem> does not, at this
time, constitute a major threat to the Grex community.  We have informed
<Defendant's login> that there was a complaint regarding <alleged action>, and
urge both parties to communicate in an effort to resolve this dispute
amicably.  If such steps, taken in good faith, are not sufficient to bring
this situation to a satisfactory resolution, we will then, and ONLY then,
consider taking action ourselves.
  Good luck!
-staff [and board?]

To Defendant:
  We regret to inform you that there has been a complaint regarding your 
behavior with regard to <nature of problem>, wherein you were accused of
<alleged action>.  Grex is a friendly community, and we want to keep it
that way.  We have asked the complainant to initiate communication with
you in regard to this situation, and urge that both of you co-operate in
an effort to resolve this dispute amicablely.  Thank you for your time
and attention.
  Good luck!
-staff [and board?]


Obviously, some form of these drafts would be used only when the dispute
is over an issue not of great importance to those not directly involved.
Feel free to comment.

response 17 of 171:

Apr 24 01:07 UTC 1995

Um, yes.  Especially the suggestion that we might be goaded into action.

response 19 of 171:

Apr 24 07:52 UTC 1995

I'm not gonna post a "telephone system" resume, but #13 is insulting,
whether intentional or not. I believe that it was NOT entered as an
insult, either directly or indirectly, steve is NOT like that.
  
#14 is rather nice boilerplate, #15 has too many holes but has an
interesting direction.

response 21 of 171:

Apr 25 06:55 UTC 1995

Uh, I'm confused - what does the liberty street cable disaster have to
do with the issues presented here?  I brought up the telephone installer
example, not in connection with grex's telephone grief (that's just an
internal technical problem) but rather as a kind of counter-example to
the policeman/priest scenario we're all taught as kids.

As kids, we're taught that if we're lost, or being picked upon by other
kids, or otherwise in distress, that we can appeal to the aid of a
priest, or a policeman, and they will render aid - provide sanctuary,
flog the oppressors, and restore us to our rightful place - or whatever
is needed.  This is their profession, that is what they were hired and
trained to do.  I think it's also no accident that they also happen to
represent the field agents of the two most powerful authoritarian
organizations in western civilization, the church and the state.

On the other hand, telephone installers are hired and trained to do much
more prosaic things.  Splice wires, drill holes in walls, and do all of
the things to make sure that your Telephone is installed in a Safe and
Reliable fashion, such that it will render years of fine service with
little or no thought or special effort on anyone's part.

If it should happen to develop that you're having a vicious fight with
your mother-in-law, I think most people would have no hesitation in
arguing that the only right and proper thing for the telephone installer
to do is to ignore it.  If either you, or your mother-in-law, appealed
to the telephone installer to act as a higher authority, I think most
people would also agree that the telephone installer ought to confine
his response to those areas he can safely render a professional opinion
- which might consist of advice in how to get an unlisted number, or
pointers to other services, such as a good lawyer, a priest, or the
police, as the situation calls for, that might best be able to help you
or your mother-in-law.

So that leaves 2 models for grex here: we can set ourselves up like a
church - and claim the right to impose a higher sense of moral authority
on our users, or we can think of ourselves as being a kind of
information utility.  In that case, we look to the users themselves to
be the ultimate moral authority, and we confine central efforts to
things that physically undermine the structure of the community, such as
crackers who try to break into the system, and give only such advice as
will help users resolve problems on their own.  The 2nd model is a much
tougher one, because everyone likes the "quick fix" of just making it
somebody else's problem.  But it's the one we've employed until now on
grex, and I think it's worked amazingly well.

These models aren't really mutually exclusive.  It's perfectly possible
for users to decide they need some sort of strong central authority.
And, in fact, a strong central authority that does not receive tacit
support from at least a sizeable minority is likely to find it difficult
to stay in power.  Indeed, in a sense, it can be said that even if staff
chooses to try to stay out of things, it's still acting as a strong
central authority - it's just deciding not to bite people very often.  I
think that's what staff would like to do, but staff has received some
feedback that concerns it a bit; there would seem to be people who feel,
at least in private, that perhaps this is not what staff should be
doing.  That's what this item is about, for people to either validate
staff's position, or for people to say, no, wait, we want staff to do
more.  So far, my sense is that people are pretty happy with the status
quo, and most of the suggestions seem to be in the direction of
simplifying and regularizing things.

response 23 of 171:

Apr 25 19:19 UTC 1995

In any moderately complex organization, there is a body that makes policy
and a body that executes policy. These often overlap in small groups, but
in corporations, they are distinct. The former is called the board, and
the latter is called the staff - and the staff includes everyone from the
custodian to the president. It is then the board that sets up the
procedure to handle complaints or, more gnerally, public relations, and
that appoints the person(s) to execute a policy the board adopts. Grex is
in that transition status between the small group and the institution, so
roles are not clearly defined. Nevertheless, I think it would be
worthwhile to delegate this public relations function a little more
clearly, so the technical staff is not called upon to make an ad-hoc
decision. I see no problem with the persons responsible for dealing with
public relations and technical matters to overlap, but it would help to
identify the former as clearly as we do (or did?) the latter. I do find,
though, when trying to attach a name to such a group that, while "help@"
is logical for technical staff, I can't think of an equally clear group
name for ombudspersons. (And users would write to whoever comes first to
mind, anyway.)