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srw
Minutes of the March 22, 1995 Board Meeting Mark Unseen   Mar 24 06:54 UTC 1995

Minutes of the Cyberspace Communications, Inc. Board Meeting of 22 March.

Directors attending:
         Valerie Mates (popcorn), chair, Steve Weiss (srw), secretary, 
         STeve Andre' (steve), Rane Curl (rcurl), 
         John Remmers (remmers), Steve Gibbard (scg).
Others attending:
         Rob Henderson (robh), Lousine Shamamian (loulou), Greg Cronau (gregc),
         Arnold Barr (adbarr), Marc Conger (aruba), Marcus Watts (mdw).
           
The meeting was called to order by Valerie shortly after 7PM in the
upstairs room at Zingerman's "Next Door".

Treasurer's report:
There was no treasurer's report because our treasurer was out of town.

501C3 committee report:
Rane Curl announced that the 501C3 committee is now in possession of the
paperwork from the Huron valley Community Network, which recently
achieved 501C3 status.

Rehabilitation committee reoprt:
Rane Curl announced that the committee  now has several recipients identified
and is looking for three computers to rehablitate for them.

Publicity Committee report:
There was no news to report.

Newsletter Committee report:
Rane Curl explained that we're in the process of naming the newsletter,
and are waiting for the vote program to be configured to take an on-line vote
to deiced this question. We will be seeking an editor for the newsletter.

Technical Committee report:

* STeve Andre' explained that the router (gryps, pronounced "gryphus")
  is not not fully stable, averaging 30 hours between failures.
  There are software improvements which have beeen done, and more are planned.

* Valerie has installed new versions of Party, Elm, and Pine.

* Some work was done on getting the two new modems on-line, but the modems
  we have have successfully resisted being placed into dial-in service. The
  staff is convinced that alternate modems will needed, and recommended that
  2 GVC modems be purchased forthis service.

* Mark Conger has written a new 'members' command, which is installed.

This ends the committee reports.

Old Businewss:

** Guest Logins:

Rob Argy had proposed that a guest account be made available
so that new users could explore Grex without having to take out an account.
There was much discussion of the merits, and there was not much
opposition to the concept that was expressed, aside from the technical
difficulties. John Remmers suggested that Rob write a simple guest account
shell. STeve Andre suggested that the technical staff could give this project
some support by implementing minor changes to "login" as needed.

Motion (srw / popcorn):
Authorize Rob Argy (ajax) to develop a technical solution to the
guest account feature, and direct the staff to support this solution
with any reasonable security features needed to imnplement it.

This motion was passed by a vote of 6-0

** Verification Policy:

John Remmers passed out a written summary of "Frequently Expressed Positions"
(FEPs) regarding Grex Verification for Usenet. These positions had been culled
from a review of the on-line discussion.

There was discussion of one aspect, the issue of how much leeway should
the verifier have. No conclusion was reached, although the discussion
largely favored the idea of eliminating leeway, and having an appeal path 
available for those who could not meet the existing verification standards.

The general conclusion was that this policy was not yet in a from which could
be placed before the board as a motion. STeve Andre' volunteered to get a
policy in position to cote on by next month.

** Staff Phone Line

STeve Andre' noted that it is getting more difficult to do maintenance
on the system, and to establish root authority in a secure fashion.
He prooposed that a phone line be dedicated for use by the staff, to be
connected to a serial port on gryps, which thus permits a number of staff
functions to be administered remotely which cannot be done today without
a visit to the dungeon.

There was some discussion of alternate schemes that might also help in this
area. There was discussion of the cost, which is $42 for installation, and
$16 per month. There would be no modem cost, as one of the modems which is
unsuitable for general dial in service could be used for this service.

This question was tabled until next month.

** New Co-op co-Fairwitness.

Four users had expressed an interest in serving as fairwitness for the co-op
conference. These users are sidhe, nephi, eeyore, and omni.
Rarely has Grex been faced with an abundance of volunteers
for this function. There is no policy for choosing a new fairwaitness.

The incumbent fairwitness, TS Taylor (tsty), who will be serving together with
the chosen nominee, had requested that the board select one of these four.
The board agreed that it would decide this question by taking two secret 
ballots. The first to reduce the field to two, and the second to decide
the winner. 

On the first ballot the highest vote count belonged to user nephi (4).
Since this was a simple majority of the votes cast, no second election
was required, and nephi was declared the winner, and new co-fw with tsty
of the co-op conference.

** New Publicity Committee chair.

Misti Anslin (mta) who has acted as publicity chair in the past, had expressed
on-line her willingness to resume in that role. The board agreed by 
acclamation that she should do so. The opinion was expressed that the 
publicity committee should be focusing on developing local usage, as we have 
acquired extensive publicity on the internet for non-local users.

** Apprentice CFadm

Our primary Conference administrator is currently John Remmers, and 
Valerie Mates is the backup cfadm. Both of these people expressed their desire
to move away from this function and to train others to take their place.
On-line discussion had produced this list of candidates:
helmke, omni, robh, nephi, davel, carl, and tsty.

John Remmers pointed out that certain unix file system skills are needed
for this position, as it comes with the authority to change the bbs
file hierarchy.

After much discussion, the board agreed by acclamation to appoint  
Scott Helmke (helmke) and Dave Lovelace (davel) as new cf-adm trainees.

** Upgrading the Hayes Modems to V.34

STeve Andre reported that ICnet has upgraded one of our modems for us.
The cost of the upgrade to the other modem is $50, and well within the
budgetary limits of the staff discretionary fund. It was left to staff
to authorize this.

** JCC Sale

The table has been rented. STeve Andre' is coordinating the efforts
associated with this project, which takes place this weekend. No board
action is needed.

** Budget proposals

Steve Weiss read a portion of the minutes from the Budget Proposal meeting
that had been held on March 5th. There were three items which were detailed
in those minutes for which board action is required to authorize spending.
Each of these was moved in turn as follows:

Motion: (srw/popcorn) Authorize $500 to purchase 32 MB of RAM to replace
the 32 MB we are currently borrowing. 

This motion passed by a vote of 6-0.

Motion: (popcorn/srw) Authorize $500 for the purchase of 5 new modems, and
authorize the installation of 3 new telephone lines for the hunt group,
which will cost a total of $48/month plus installation (if any).

This motion passed by a vote of 6-0.

Motion: (popcorn/rcurl) Authorize a total of $1250 for staff to obtain a
Sparc CPU card, Disk drive, and other required hardware for upgrading Grex
to a Sun-4.

This motion passed by a vote of 6-0.

Further expenditures were deemed beyond the reach of the general
fund, but could be considered if a fundraising effort were successful.
It was decided not to begin a fundrasinig effort now, because the CPU upgrade
project represented consumption of a great deal of the staff's time over the
next several months.

The projects that were delayed by this action are Usenet, expansion
of the internet link, faster modems, a terminal server, and
additional disk space.

** Grex Joining the WIN Consortium

The board had acted to enter Cyberspace Communications into the WIN
consortium for the purpose of jointly applying for a TIIAP grant.
This action took place in a special meeting on 19 March.
WIN consortium members are Cyberspace Communications, Arbornet, and HVCN.

Arnold Barr (adbarr) chair of the Huron Valley Community Network, HVCN,
was in attendance at this meeting and he explained the history of the HVCN.
The TIIAP grant which the WIN group is applying for is at the
$250,000 level. The question of openness was discussed at some length.
Arnold expressed his opinion that Grant money would not involve
any hazard to the openness of WIN member organizations such as Grex.

New business:

** Michigan Computer Shopper AD.

Rob Argy had requested that we place an ad in the Computer Shopper, as
discussed in item 113. Valerie read the entries that would be made, and
some minor changes were agreed upon.

Moved: (srw/scg) Authorize requesting a listing in the 
Michigan Computer Shopper, listing Grex as follows:
1:     Title: Grex
2:      City: Ann Arbor
3:     State: MI
4:   Country: USA
5:     SysOp: staff@cyberspace.org
6:     Phone: (313) 761-3000
7:  Hardware: Sun 3/260 running Unix
8:  Software: Picospan
9:     Modem: 8 lines, Supra 2400
10:  Started:
11:      Fee: no fee
12:     Desc: Conferences, Chat, Internet E-mail, telnet cyberspace.org

This motion passed by acclamation.

** Dungeon inspection

Valerie, STeve Andre, and greg Cronau will maintain contact with the landlord
regarding the upcoming city inspection. There was general agreement that
it was the owner's responsibility to obtain and pay for the building
permit. STeve Andre' proposed that we could make this easier for them by
paying a month's rent in advance, especially since we should be able to
negociate some free months for it.

Moved: (rcurl/popcorn) Authorize an advance payment of rent up to one year.

Votes for: popcorn, steve, rcurl, scg
Against: none
Abstain: remmers, srw

The motion carried 4-0.

The meeting was adjourned somewhat after 10PM.


Respectfully submitted,

-srw (Steve Weiss, secretary)
24 responses total.
nephi
response 1 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 24 07:47 UTC 1995

Thank you, srw.  
carl
response 2 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 24 09:30 UTC 1995

I wish I could have been there for the meeting.  I'm glad to see
that the hardware improvements were passed.

popcorn
response 3 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 24 16:03 UTC 1995

Nice minutes -- thanks Steve!
rogue
response 4 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 26 04:34 UTC 1995

A business associate of mine, Paul Southworth, has literally tons of
SUN equipment, including some 32MB cards (for well under $500 if I 
remember correctly). Send mail to pauls@cic.net.


steve
response 5 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 26 08:05 UTC 1995

   Thanks--I just sent him mail.
popcorn
response 6 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 27 15:39 UTC 1995

Thanks Jemmie -- we ended up buying some neat stuff from him.
kaplan
response 7 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 27 15:59 UTC 1995

Excuse me if I missed other discussion, but $500 for 5 modems and 3 phone
lines seems odd to me.  For $100 or less you can get US Robotics 14.4
modems at Best Buy.  Is grex spending that kind of money on 2400 modems?
If "faster modems" is one of the projects delayed for a few months, why
sink money into slower ones now?

And are there currently two bad modems or two idle phone lines to account
for the difference between 5 modems and 3 phone lines? 

srw
response 8 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 27 16:28 UTC 1995

No, the modems we bought are 14.4k Modems. You are right that we should not 
be buying 2400 baud modems. We do not yet know whether it will be practical 
to run them faster than 2400 until we have a terminal server.  We did not 
allocate money for that because it was too far down on our priority list. 
We plan to experiment with higher speeds without that terminal server, 
but there is still much disagreement on the advisability of this. 
gregc
response 9 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 27 16:43 UTC 1995

1.)The board approved 2 new phone lines a *long* time ago. However, the
   installation of those 2 new lines was delayed until the move to the 
   dungeon. We didn't want to pay $42 per line to have new lines installed
   at CE when we would be moving "any day now" and have to pay the $42
   all over again. So when we moved, we automatically had 2 additional
   phone lines turned on at the dungeon. We had 2 modems we were going to use
   on those lines, but it took awhile for somebody to find time to hook them
   up, and then when somebody did, we found we had problems with those
   modems. So 2 of the new modems are for these 2 lines.
2.)At the last board meeting the board approved having 3 additional phone
   lines added. The other 3 new modems are for these new lines. We decided
   to get these new lines now because Ameritech is currently waving the $42
   installation charge.
3.)Cheaper does not equal better. I'm quite certain Best buy has some modems
   for less, but modems are very different. There are modems and there are
   modems. Most manufacturers assume that a very high percentage of their
   product will be used in dial-out mode. Also , places that test modems
   assume the same thing. Alot of modems have trouble working reliably as a
   dial-in modem. You need additional features and better than average
   reliability. The GVC are proven performers in this area. Also, these are
   14.4K modems, not 2400 baud. We may run them at 9600baud or we may 
   configure them to only run at 2400baud for now until we upgrade the
   CPU. We need to run some tests. Buying 2400baud mdoems would be stupid,
   we didn't even consider this.

helmke
response 10 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 27 17:59 UTC 1995

I must be on one of the new modems.  This is FAST!!!
popcorn
response 11 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 27 18:25 UTC 1995

It looks like you were on ttyh1 when you entered that.  That should,
indeed, be one of the newer modems, which someone said (somewhere) are
running at 9600 baud right now, so it should indeed be fast.

Thanks Greg!
kaplan
response 12 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 27 18:41 UTC 1995

Does the existance of new modems mean I may no longer have to turn off the
error checking (or something) on my 14.4 modem before I dail into grex? 
From the time I got my 14.4 modem until I discovered AT\n0 I had a hard
time connecting to grex.
gregc
response 13 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 27 18:45 UTC 1995

We only have modems on 2 lines that support MNP, we have not replaced
the old modems, just added new ones. The 6 modems on lines ttyh4 through
ttyh9 are still the old Supra 2400 baud non-MNP modems.
steve
response 14 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 28 03:35 UTC 1995

   After talking to several people who've used 14.4Kbps modei in
dialin service, the GVC rate at the top for the "cheap" class.
I have various stories about modei *not* to use, too.

   Anyway, now that we have two modei up and running at 9600bps,
we're going to try some tests to see what the impact really is
on the system, espically when they are used to upload data to
Grex.  It may well be the case that we can't reasonably run them
at 9600bps, or that only two can, or maybe the four possible
high-speed lines can be.  We don't have real data on them yet.

   If we can, and everything works out I'd like to see the last
four lines in our trunk hunt be on ttyh0, h1, h2 and h3 be high
speed lines.  I somewhat doubt we can do this, but I'm all for
trying it out.
srw
response 15 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 28 06:07 UTC 1995

Jeff, if you stop suppressing MNP, you will get screwed should you happen
to get connected to an old modem. You would want to do this if you dial
into the end of the hunt group with the intention of getting V.32.

761-4931 will be the beginning of the high-speed portion of the hunt group.
I wouldn't use this strategy for normal use of Grex, because it will 
increase your chances of getting a busy signal. If I were planning a download,
though I might attack dial this number.
gregc
response 16 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 28 17:01 UTC 1995

Also, the only thing that gets screwed up if you attempt an MNP 
connection to a non-MNP modem, is that all the MNP handshaking info gets
passed on to the Sun and screws up the Sun's Getyy autobaud rate detection
software. This ussually results in the wrong baud rate coming from Grex, 
and you see all kinds of garbage characters on the screen when you hit
a <return>. You can cure this by sending a <BREAK> signal through. The
sun will cycle through the sequence 2400, 1200, 300, 2400, 1200, 300, etc
eveytime it recieves a <BREAK> signal.
helmke
response 17 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 28 17:14 UTC 1995

That exactly explains my usual modem (not a problem, just a thing, I guess)
situation.  I have to send break a few times until it responds.

No point in changing now, I suppose.
popcorn
response 18 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 29 00:57 UTC 1995

Ja, if you turn off error correction you shouldn't have to send a break.

Hey Greg?  What's the baud-rate sequence on the new modems?
scg
response 19 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 29 03:51 UTC 1995

Last time I was in the Dungeon, I think I remember noticing that one of
the 2400 bps modems said on its case that it does mnp 5.  Is that turned off?
gregc
response 20 of 24: Mark Unseen   Mar 29 09:52 UTC 1995

Re #18: Valerie
There is no baud rate sequence for the new modems. The new modems are
running with a FIXED DTE rate between the modem and Grex. The serial
connection always runs at 9600baud, regardless of the carrier rate that
the modem connects with. Hardware handshaking is used to clock blocks
of data between Grex and the modem using the CTS and RTS lines.

Re #19: Scg
Yes, one of the old Supra 2400's is not as old as the rest. It supports
MNP4 error correction, but that capibility was disabled to make it
compatible, and consistent, with the rest.
tsty
response 21 of 24: Mark Unseen   Apr 14 09:09 UTC 1995

REsponses #13 and #15 seem to be in conflict ... are the faster
modei starting at ttyh0 (as #13 suggests), or starting at ttyh6 (as
#15 suggests)? 
popcorn
response 22 of 24: Mark Unseen   Apr 14 14:50 UTC 1995

The ttys aren't in trunk-hunt order anymore.  The first line in the
trunk hunt is something like ttyh6 or ttyh4.  Ttyh0 is the 6th modem
in the trunk hunt; it is a fast modem.
steve
response 23 of 24: Mark Unseen   Apr 14 18:29 UTC 1995

   There are six 1200/2400bps modei starting at ttyh4 (to ttyh9) and
a 2400bps only (at the present, out of service and busied out) as ttyha.
Then ttyh0 to ttyh3 at 761-4931.
tsty
response 24 of 24: Mark Unseen   Apr 15 10:22 UTC 1995

thank you - just changed my default dialer - this is nice!
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