Special Board Meeting re. TIIAP Grant Application

Mar 16 21:08 UTC 1995

Grex, Arbornet, and the Huron Valley Computing Network are tentatively
planning to create a consortium to apply for a TIIAP grant.  This item
is to announce that there's going to be a special meeting (hopefully a
Very Brief special meeting) of Grex's board tomorrow, Friday March 17,
to discuss (and hopefully approve) Grex officially joining the consortium
of local groups applying for this grant.  The meeting will be at 5:30
at my place.  Send me e-mail if you want to go and you need directions.

response 2 of 220:

Mar 16 21:29 UTC 1995

I've just learned about this, after reading a flurry of mail about
it, all of it sent today.

We are talking about big money here, there has been no online
discussion that I can recall, and I don't know what the long-range
implications for Grex might be.  I'm a board member but feel very
uninformed.  It's doubtful that a "very brief" meeting would serve to
inform me.

As there's been inadequate opportunity for either the users, the members,
or the members' elected representatives to examine this proposal, I
object to being asked to make a decision on such short notice.

response 4 of 220:

Mar 17 01:05 UTC 1995

Okay, I found and read through the HVCN discussion item in oldcoop
(it's item 48); I remember reading through it before.  I also read
through all my HVCN mail.

I'm still feeling uninformed.  The HVCN mail has mostly to do with
scheduling meetings.  The item in oldcoop contains some discussion of
the possibility of applying for this grant, and some expression of
concern from some users regarding possible compromises to Grex's
independence if we accept Federal funds, and a brief description of one
of the meetings, but nothing definitive about the nature of what we're
applying for.  The last response in the item indicates that there was
a meeting, mentions who was there, and mentions that the group was
going to work on the focus of what the grant application should be --
but there was never any followup regarding what the focus turned out to
be.

If I missed something that was entered somewhere, please point me to it.

I'm not dismissing anything, easily or otherwise.  But despite attempts
to inform myself, I still don't now what the substance of the proposal
is and what Grex would be committing itself to.  I need to know a
decent amount of time before I'm expected to vote on it.  I think the
users are entitled to know too.  A board meeting less than 24 hours
from now doesn't give enough time.

response 6 of 220:

Mar 17 01:22 UTC 1995

#4 slipped in.

I wanted to point out with regard to the question of compromising Grex's
principles by accepting Federal Funds. I raised that question and I
don't dismiss it at all lightly. In this case the funds would not be
awarded to Grex, but to the consortium. At worst, we would have to drop
out of the consortium to maintain our independence, though I doubt this
would actually come up.

The proposal is not to sign a binding contract upon Grex, but rather
to agree to join a consortium to cooperate to try to make something
good happen. We can always back out if we don't like how it's going.

response 8 of 220:

Mar 17 02:07 UTC 1995

        Of interest: HVCN got their 501(c)(3) status earlier this week.

response 10 of 220:

Mar 17 04:36 UTC 1995

Greg,  from Arnold D. Barr, Chair
Huron Valley Community Network - 
(you may address me as "Your Fullness")

We are HV*C*N, not HVFN.  Please understand you are dealing
with something new, unknown, and dangerously powerful.

We want to trust GREX.  We do trust Steve Weiss, Valerie, 
Dan Romanchik, and others in GREX.

We want to take advantage of all the expertise you can 
bring to bear.  We want to get the benefit of every
expert invoved with GREX, Arbornet, U of M, EMU, the
county government, and banks, businesses, and social
service agencies here in Washtenaw County.

We do NOT want to control GREX.  We have plenty of 
problems without that!  Ask for your advice, Yes!
Tell you what to do? No!.  Seek your knowledge? Yes?

The very fact that we are communicating is the reason
HVCN exists.  We want to expand this - *with your help*
- beyond what is now.

Yesterday, I met with a group of librarians from several
library districts in the County.  They need technical 
computer and telecommunications help to understand what
is happening in this "revolution" you and I are talking
about.  I volunteered to help the Ypsilanti Library
applly for grants to get money for computers and communications
equipment.  The money is there.  They need to understand
what it is that can be done to apply for it, and they
need help to get it.  They cannot afford to pay big dollars
for "experts" and they are not sure who to ask. How about
doing a little volunteer work?  Do you see risks there?

HVCN comes to Grex and asks for your help.  In  return,
We will help you.  Ask me how-- <k12_barr@emuvax.emich.edu>

Arnold D. Barr

response 12 of 220:

Mar 17 06:35 UTC 1995

Re #9, more representatives from Grex are welcome to be involved with HVCN;
just show up!  The meetings are public and have been announced on Grex.
HVCN is made up of whoever wants to help..."they" is "us" to some extent,
as several Grexxers have participated.  If you're still confusing them with
HVFN, I think you'll be pleased if you take the time to meet this group.
 
HVCN is short of tech folks, though Grexxers, among others, are helping fill
that void.  And it's true that they don't have any hardware up and running.
But they do have good, interested, energetic people.  Their approach so far
sounds like get some money, hope for tech volunteers, and worst case, hire
people to do some of the dirty work.  The high level plan of what things
they're hoping to accomplish sound realistic and sensible.
 
Currently, I think their organizational power is their main strength; they've
attracted several professionals from a number of local organizations, with
good connections at local universities and so on.  I think their ability
to get a 501(c)3 in a short time reflects that organizational strength.  I
also think they have a much better chance of pulling off a nice-sized grant
(like TIIAP, or others if this one doesn't fly) than the participating
organizations like Grex would alone.
 
And most importantly, with the number of Grexxers who have been involved,
I think it's been very clearly expressed that we can't participate if it
means changing Grex's policies.  M-Netters voiced similar concerns in their
policy conference.  HVCN wants to get the cooperation of groups like Grex,
but it isn't some big brother org that's out to take us over.  I'm confident
Grex has enough cynics to smell any danger of that a mile away!  :)

response 14 of 220:

Mar 17 06:46 UTC 1995

Rob's comment slipped in at #12.

response 16 of 220:

Mar 17 07:39 UTC 1995

In response to Greg's concerns about who the WIN consortium is made
up of: I've been to 2 of the 3 meetings that led to the formation of
the WIN consortium.  I'd say the makeup of the representatives at
the meetings has been about 40-50% from Arbornet, 40% from the HVCN
and other organizations, and about 20% from Grex.  I see now that I
should have been doing a much better job of reporting back to Grex
about the meetings I've attended.  I plead guilty of not reporting
enough back to Grexers, with my only excuses being over-meetingedness
and over-e-mailedness.

Last I checked, the technical committee of the HVCN is made up entirely
of volunteers from Grex (eg. srw, scg and danr).  They're all good people,
and their work on the HVCN isn't going to destroy Grex's staff's ability
to function.

The WIN consortium seems, so far, to be getting its technical knowledge
from Arbornet people and from Jeff Ogden from Merit.

-------------
On another topic, I've been collecting e-mail about the technical plans
for the WIN consortium in the file /u/popcorn/tiiap/layout.  Feel free
to read it.  (Type "!menumore /u/popcorn/tiiap/layout" to see it.)

response 18 of 220:

Mar 17 15:00 UTC 1995

Here is the suggested text of the resolution:

> Resolved:  Cyberspace Communications, Inc., a Michigan nonprofit
> corporation, declares that it shall be a member of the
> Washtenaw Informartion Networks, a consortium of computing
> and telecommunication interests in Washtenaw County,
> Michigan, with and for the purpose of forming, executing,
> and transmitting a letter of intent to the United States
> Department of Commerce declaring the intent of the
> consortium to apply for a T. I. I. A. P. grant on or before
> April 20, 1995.  Such letter of intent to be delivered to
> the Department of Commerce on or before March 23, 1995.
>  
> It is further resolved that Cyberspace Communications, Inc.
> authorizes Linda Vengroff to execute the letter of intent on
> behalf of the Washtenaw Information Networks consortium and to
> cause the filing of the letter of intent with the Department of
> commerce.

response 20 of 220:

Mar 17 19:29 UTC 1995

Response #7, gives me a much clearer idea of what the goals are.
Thanks for entering it, jep.

I'm also glad to see Arnold Barr participating here.  Hi, Arnold!

I feel that I'm in a strange position, having been the initial Grex
person contacted by the HVCN, which led to the current informal
involvement.  I think the goals of the proposal are laudable.  But I'm
also a Board member of Grex, have a constituency to represent, must
look at how Grex's interests fit in, and now that we're considering
making things more formal, feel I must raise some questions.

Up to now, Grex hasn't partnered with any other organization.  We're
now considering doing that.  I realize that at this point in time
it's just to write a letter of intent, but nonetheless it's significant
in that it's a concerete step we haven't taken before and that could
lead further.

If we're considering liaisons, we have to look at some things.  I hear
the assurances that nobody wants to muck with Grex's independence and
believe they are sincere, but new organizational structure and liaisons
can, over time, create pressures that weren't there before, even if
nobody intended for it to happen.  For example, a key aspect of Grex is
its openness -- we don't verify users, and we don't restrict access to
conferences, regardless of topic, based on age or any other criteria.
That degree of openness doesn't sit well with a lot of people.  I'd
like to know that any potential partners of Grex are aware of this
policy, and are comfortable with it, or at least that it wouldn't be an
issue.  

As we've already partially moved away from the non-verification policy
with respect to Usenet posting, it's not just an idle concern that if
we're part of some larger community group, then sometime down the road
we'd find ourselves under pressure to move away from it even more.

If we decide to consider association with WIN and HVCN on a formal
basis, I think that the next few weeks are an ideal time for us to get
to know each other better.  Some Grex people have been to HVCN
meetings, but I think it'd be appropriate for HVCN people to come to
one of our board meetings to meet the board and staff as a whole and
any other interested Grex users.  It's not my place to do formal
inviting but I thought I'd make the suggestion.

Re today's board meeting:  It was scheduled before I had a chance to
say if it worked for me or not.  It probably won't, as I have a meeting
on campus this afternoon that could drag on for a while.  My Sunday
schedule is quite open; perhaps it could be rescheduled for then?

response 22 of 220:

Mar 18 03:27 UTC 1995

        The tone of the 3 TIIAP grant meetings has been very open.  I've been
to all of them.  Everyone present has been receptive to my ideas, and to
those of other Arbornet and Grex people who have attended, though none of 
the HVCN Board members who were present had any idea who I or probably any
of us were when we attended the first of these meetings.  There's been 
some excellent relationship building.  Come what may, we are all part of
the local community of computer users.  I've been left with considerable 
warmth for the people of the HVCN, and their goals as they've come up.
        I've always felt that Arbornet and Grex had a lot in common.  I now
include HVCN in that characterization.  The organizers are different
people than those who inhabit Grex and Arbornet, but I believe we want
many of the same things.  The HVCN representatives, who all have much more
experience in fund raising, government, and organization than anyone in
Arbornet or Grex, want to work with us.
        Is it a risk?  Anything Grex does is a risk.  The formation of Grex
was a risk.  Working with other organizations is certainly a new risk, but
then, so is recruiting people to join as members.  (About $1500 could
absolutely buy a Grex election, and Grex with it.  This could also happen
to Arbornet, of course.)
        The TIIAP grant will expand Grex a lot if we get it, mostly with local 
users, and if Grex participates.  It'll also make Usenet News available here 
again.  It'll also expand the Internet access available to Grex.  Will it
cost Grex it's independence?  I don't think so.  Everyone involved with
forming WIN has expressed concern over the possibility of their
organizations losing some of their independence.  It is a legitimate
concern.  We intend to guard against that.  We intend to work together on
things that will benefit us all, and otherwise leave each other alone.
Can we do it?  I think we can.

response 24 of 220:

Mar 18 08:54 UTC 1995

I agree with you Rane, but I have agreed to join with other Grex directors
for an impromptu meeting at Valerie's in order to address the single item
of the letter of intent. I want to see no other discussions there.

As one Grex director, I am publicly delaring my support for the letter
of intent to join the consortium. This will only be sufficient if
we are unanimous. Because we might not be (who knows) the need for a
meeting remains.

I have had the opportunity to get to know a number of the HVCN
organizers over the last month or more. I have the same warm feelings
that jep expressed. That led to my involvement with their technical
committee. Jeff Ogden has convinced me that Merit would be able to
provide a great deal of the initial (first year) support they would 
need for their system. It is just a matter of time before HVCN has a 
system up, with or without TIIAP.

HVCN and Grex will complement each other, I am completely convinced of that.
That is why I would favor cooperation in one form or another. TIIAP and WIN
came along, and conveniently form the framework that I couldn't perceive
earlier which permits cooperation while retaining the identities and
personalities of the member groups.

As much as Grex leads HVCN in technical matters, they are ahead of us
organizationally. We can learn from each other. I'd really like to
second remmers's suggestion that HVCNers to come to some of our meetings, too.