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Grex > Coop7 > #125: Reconsidering putting new users in agora | |
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lilmo
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Reconsidering putting new users in agora
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Nov 10 08:06 UTC 1995 |
In item 1, discussion has flared up, once again, regarding agora, with
particular concern directed to the current policy of putting new users into
that converence as a default. Among the prposals to replace that policy are
as-yet-unspecified algorithms for assigning newusers to other cf's, either
by use of a menu system of some sort, or by searching the "interests" field
of the .plan for key words; the "newinfo" cf that popcorn has given some
attention to, off and on; and assigning new users to a random sub-agora, each
with the topical scope of the current agora, but not the same huge user base.
I would like to center some of that discussion here, with an eye to cobbling
together some kind of consensus that can be submitted as a member proposal.
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| 76 responses total. |
robh
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response 1 of 76:
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Nov 10 10:59 UTC 1995 |
I will once again >8) throw in the idea of an "Intro" conference,
which would have one or two items linked from several of the
other conferences, giving new users a better idea of what the
conferences (on the whole) are like. Unless it's heavily
moderated, though, I expect it'll turn into yet another Agora.
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davel
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response 2 of 76:
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Nov 10 11:31 UTC 1995 |
If it has linked items, heavily moderating it could be a real headache,
involving problems with FWs & participants in the other cfs. I think
I'm against this idea for the reason Rob mentioned: it would simply
be another Agora.
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scott
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response 3 of 76:
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Nov 10 12:16 UTC 1995 |
My own best suggestion, which is (alas) only semi-serious, is to have 2
Agoras, Agora A-L and Agora M-Z. Experienced users can follow both, providing
the qualtity content that we hope newbies see and like enough to stick around.
As a plus, the smaller conferences will run a bit faster.
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popcorn
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response 4 of 76:
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Nov 10 14:25 UTC 1995 |
Hm. What's the goal of breaking up agora? Less volume for the newbies to
deal with? Getting more people into other conferences? Making agora more
readable for the old users who are currently buried alive under the volume
there? We might want to set some goals for this agora-realignment before
planning solutions to the problem.
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kerouac
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response 5 of 76:
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Nov 11 02:07 UTC 1995 |
I dont like the idea of having newuser determine a default conf
by scanning the inputed interests. This would probably make newuser
run slower than it already does.
Newuser could just default newbies to the current "menu" screen, which
shows in organized form what they can do. Or perhaps to a new menu
screen which lists all the confs. This menu prog can prompt for the
confs the newbies want and create a .cflist automatically.
It can just be pretty intimidating for a new user to be dumped into
Agora and be faced with a huge conf with over 100 items to read. Plus
too many new users arent even aware there ARE other confs. Time and
again I run into an newuser on Party who thinks Agora is the only conf.
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robh
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response 6 of 76:
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Nov 11 02:14 UTC 1995 |
And I *constantly* deal with help-seekers who think Agora is
the only conference. It annoys me to no end.
Re 2 - When I say "heavily moderated", I don't mean moderating
the individual items. In fact, I'd want the Intro f-w to
stay out of that area. I mean limiting, or outright preventing,
anyone but the f-w from entering items in Intro itself.
I envision Intro as being like the sampler box of six
different flavors of tea that I have in my cupboard. It lets
people who are new to conferencing figure out what's out there,
what's out there that they *like*, and proceed from there.
From what I can tell, Agora manages to convince users (without trying)
that it's the full extent of conferencing possibilities here in
PicoSpan. Kind of like my getting stuck with a box of apricot
tea, and not being able to find any other varieties. >8)
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rcurl
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response 7 of 76:
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Nov 11 07:20 UTC 1995 |
I support the idea of an Intro cf. It can turn over more frequently
than agora, where most conferences will hang out, and it can always
be restarted with items giving suggestions for conferencing, what's
available, etc, and *some* items continued from the prior edition
(items that overlap just two editions, say). It would be the "launching
pad" for newusers to venture out into the other conferences. It could
be kept small and yet continually active, serving the same role for
all newusers, without changing in size or general character.
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carson
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response 8 of 76:
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Nov 11 08:16 UTC 1995 |
Wow. This idea had occurred to me a couple of days ago, but I wasn't sure
of how to formulate it, nor was I really planning on discussing it here
any time soon. Hey, times change, and some minds travel on the same
wavelength as others.
Take heed of popcorn's suggestion for establishing a goal. I don't think
the idea of an "intro" conference is a bad one. It could possibly be
set-up as a "fishbowled" conference... wait, PicoSpan doesn't do that,
does it? More thought necessary...
Anyway, don't let the idea of two Agoras bother you. There tend to be at
least four up and running all year round, of all seasonings.
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robh
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response 9 of 76:
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Nov 11 12:27 UTC 1995 |
<robh is glad that carson has returned>
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davel
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response 10 of 76:
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Nov 11 16:07 UTC 1995 |
So am I.
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popcorn
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response 11 of 76:
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Nov 11 19:56 UTC 1995 |
Me three.
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abchan
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response 12 of 76:
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Nov 11 21:32 UTC 1995 |
Me four.
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danr
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response 13 of 76:
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Nov 13 17:10 UTC 1995 |
Who's carson? :)
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rickyb
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response 14 of 76:
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Nov 13 17:24 UTC 1995 |
I kinda like the idea of an intro conference. It could give newbies a
little taste of grex and include items with instructions to help them
navigate and change their defaults to their own desires. A lot like a
help conference, I admit, but limited to items most helpful to newbies.
Once they get the hang of things, they will most certainly change their
default to one of their own choice. And all this, without bogging down
the newuser program.
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kerouac
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response 15 of 76:
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Nov 13 23:51 UTC 1995 |
I like the intro conf and suggest robh to be its first fw
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robh
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response 16 of 76:
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Nov 14 00:03 UTC 1995 |
What did I ever do to you, ker? >8)
If the Intro conference is created, I volunteer to f-w it.
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meg
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response 17 of 76:
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Nov 14 02:48 UTC 1995 |
Doesn't sound like a bad idea. Maybe one of the things that could be done
would be to restart items once they get X number of responses. I noticed
tonight that the announcements item already has well over 500 responses,
consequently, it's even enormously way slower than usual to load up when
there's a new one. I shudder to think what it will be like till the next
edition of Agora rolls around.
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rcurl
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response 18 of 76:
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Nov 14 06:33 UTC 1995 |
Can items "roll"? One could set the number of responses, and old ones
will roll off into oblivion as new ones come in. One could have
different maxima in different items.
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robh
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response 19 of 76:
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Nov 14 13:11 UTC 1995 |
I've seen various DOS-oriented BBS's that "roll" messages like
that, but I don't know if PicoSpan can do that.
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popcorn
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response 20 of 76:
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Nov 14 15:47 UTC 1995 |
Nope, Picospan doesn't.
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carson
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response 21 of 76:
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Nov 14 16:03 UTC 1995 |
re #9-13: If I can stay pleasant, I'll stick around.
Thoughts about making an "intro" conference neweruser friendly:
* have only a few items at a time, say 5-15 items.
* have some of the items be of an informative, but frozen nature. Por
ejemplo, M-Net's general conference usually has a frozen first item
with all sorts of helpful information with regards to using the
conference software. I wouldn't suggest such a thing for Agora, but
for an Intro conference, it works. Just look at M-Net's general and
see all the wonderful new users. :*
* revolve the items on a fairly frequent basis. If an item gets to some
arbitrarily large number of responses, unlink it and pull in a newer
item. Also, strive for items of varying length, whenever possible.
This will help show the diversity of conferencing interests as well
as encourage users to go looking for that item that just disappeared...
* perhaps pick a couple of conferences other than Agora to show off
items from every once in a while. Sure, this might play to the FWs
interests, but so what?
* instead of restarting the conference on a reg./irreg. basis, try giving
it a "rolling restart" instead. This would eventually give the conference
a feel of history without the bulk that comes with it. Remember to keep
that first item first, though. (I gave the games conference a "rolling
restart" a few months ago; don't know how well it worked, yet.)
* have an item that tells what it is that a FW has done when s/he moves
items in and out. Such an item could also tell users how to find those
items in the originating conference(s).
Think of an Introduction conference as a sort of travel brochure, telling
users what's out there, without dropping them into it unawares. I don't
think that such a conference would detract from Agora at all.
As part of a goal of such a conference, I think that one of the higher
ones should be to get users out of it... and into the other conferences.
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robh
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response 22 of 76:
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Nov 14 16:17 UTC 1995 |
Are you kidding? I want to link as few items from Agora
to Intro as possible. >8) The idea is to have an Intro
conference that isn't the slightest bit like Agora.
I was thinking of more than 15 items, but not much more,
something like 25 to 30 active items at a time. And
I'd definitely like to see items rotated in and out regularly.
I do like the idea of some frozen "How do I do stuff" items,
especially on "how do I get to another conference".
And I'm very much agreed that the Intro conference should do
its best to get people out of the Intro conference.
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carson
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response 23 of 76:
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Nov 14 16:23 UTC 1995 |
heh. Rob, remember, after Intro, Agora won't be the same. :)
Want some help?
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robh
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response 24 of 76:
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Nov 14 17:36 UTC 1995 |
Very much, yes.
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