Report on Grex Budget Planning Meeting -- Sept 24, 1995

Sep 24 21:54 UTC 1995

Present:  popcorn
          danr
          scott
          srw    (left early)
          janc
          steve  (arrived late)
          glenda (arrived late)
          drew   (arrived late)

Disclaimer: I apologize in advance for the many errors I may have made in
   reporting things I don't always completely understand, but have strong
   opinions on anyway.  Everyone, please feel free to post corrections,
   additions and amplifications.

The purpose of this meeting was to set priorities for spending in the next
6-12 months.  A pretty good consensus was reached on all these points, but,
of course, all of this is totally open to modification.

AVAILABILITY OF FUNDS:

The good news is that we seem to have money to spend.  Grex's operating costs
are about $350 a month, but Grex has been bringing in an average of about
$600-$700 a month, including JCC sales and such like.  The income has been
very variable, with less than $300 in slow months.  There is currently about
$3500 in the bank.

There are some disturbing trends though.  The number of memberships is down,
and the turn-over rate of members is high.  Getting onto a faster machine
should help turn this around though.

As before, we felt we'd like to keep about $2000 in the bank, meaning we have
about $1500 we can use for one-time costs.  We felt we could raise our
operating expenses to pretty close to $600 per month for an increase of
$200 - $250.  This would be sustainable even if there is no increase in
income, but we would expect things like a faster computer, a faster net
connection, and USENET news would lead to an income increase.

PRIORITIZED LIST OF SUGGESTED EXPANSIONS:

(1) A 32 Meg Memory Card

    Expected Cost:  about $300 one-time

    One of the memory cards we are currently using belongs to Marcus and will
    have to go back to Marcus some day.  Even if we can keep Marcus's card,
    more memory would be nice to have for the Sun 4.  Sun 4 (sparc) binaries
    are typically bigger than Sun 3 binaries so with the same amount of
memory,
    we would expect more swapping on the Sun 4, and swapping to disk will be
    just as slow on the Sun 4 as on the Sun 3.  This purchase will give
    us 128 Meg memory for as long as Marcus lets us keep his board, or
    maintains the existing 96 Meg memory if he needs his board back.

    We have a defective 32 Meg board that might be fixable.  If that can be
    done, then we won't need to buy this.  That fix should be tried first.

(2) Upgrade Internet Connection to a two B-channel ISDN link

    Expected Cost:

        Recurring:                    $260 per month
            ISP Fees:                 $160 per month (this is a wild guess)
            Centrex Phone lines:      $100 per month

            Save Current ICNET fees : -$40 per month

        One-Time:                     $595 one-time
            ISDN Card for router:     $500 one-time
            Phone Installation:        $95 one-time

            Release 2 28.8K modems:  -$750 one-time

    Given a faster system (with the Sun 4) everyone agreed that a faster
    net connection was the next thing.  At this point we really don't have
    a good feel for what it would cost.  It is possible that we can cut a
    good deal someplace, but we need to shop around and start negotiating.

    For the ISDN card, there is some question about whether we can find 
    adequate driver software, though if that is not available now, it is
    likely to become available soon.

    I presume there would be some start-up fees for us to pay the ISP too,
    which we didn't get included here.

    It was suggested that with the faster internet link, we should not expand
    the number of pseudo-tty's without limit.  We should limit them to
    maintain acceptable network and cpu speeds.

(3) Add Staff Line to Gryps

    Expected Cost:

       Recurring:  Phone lines:    $20 per month

       One-Time:                  $182 one-time
           Phone installation:     $42 one-time
           Phone Jack Thingy:      $40 one-time
           Modem:                 $100 one-time

    The staff line would go into Gryps, the Intel box that serves as our
    router, instead of into Grex.  Gryps would be connected to Grex's
    console.  This would make it possible for staff to reboot Grex by
    dialing into Gryps instead of visiting the dungeon.  It would also
    have security benefits -- staff would be able respond to security
    problems by doing things like taking Grex off-line or shutting it
    down completely from a remote site.  It can even slightly improve
    dial-in access to Grex for regular users, since there can be one
    fewer staff member on the regular dial-in lines.

    The Phone Jack Thingy, whose real name I forgot, is needed to add any
    more phone lines to Grex.  We'll need to buy one the next time we add
    any line.

    The cost of the modem might be saved if one of the 28.8K modems freed
    up by the internet change is put into the trunk hunt, making a slower
    modem available for this.

(4) USENET news feed

    Expected Cost:

        Recurring:                    $70 per month
            phone lines:              $40 per month
            electricity for Sun 3:    $30 per month

        One-Time:
            Hard Disk for Sun 3:    $1000 one-time
            Two v.34 Modems:         $750 one-time

    The plan would be to set up the Sun 3/260 (which will have been replaced
    by the Sun 4 as Grex's main machine) with a big disk and two 8 Meg memory
    cards and use it as the news machine.  We would get the news over a
    dedicated line and it could be accessed by users on Grex.

    This would enable us to set up usenet permissions as were proposed in the
    member vote.

    Having both the Sun 4 and the Sun 3 running will increase the power bill,
    plus generate even more heat in the dungeon.  However we believe current
    cooling plans will take care of the heat.

    The cost of the modems might be saved by using the ones that currently
    carry our internet connection.

    Use of a satellite link for the main feed was also discussed.  The costs
    would be roughly the same, but we wouldn't be able to save money by the
    modems.  Some network bandwidth would be consumed, since anything missed
    on the satellite link would have to be fetched over the net.  This should
    be small though.  A possible advantage of the satellite link would be that
    it would stand up to the increasing flow of USENET traffic longer.

(5) More user lines

    Expected Cost (each line):

       Recurring:  Phone lines:    $20 per month

       One-Time:                  $142 one-time
           Phone installation:     $42 one-time
           Modem:                 $100 one-time

    We currently seem to have good dial-in access.  Obviously it will fill
    up again, but improved network accessibility may take some pressure off
    the phones.  There seems no immediate need for more lines, but they are
    relatively cheap and can be added as needed if money looks good.

(5) Another 32 Meg Memory Card

    Expected Cost:  about $300 one-time

    If we really do need 128 Megs on the Sun 4, and Marcus ever does take his
    card back, will will need another of these things.

CONCLUSIONS:

Since we don't really know what ISDN is going to cost us, it is hard to say
how much of this we can do.  The internet upgrade seems well within reach.
The USENET connection is mostly one-time costs.  We might be able to do that
with a fund raiser.

The next thing:  start exploring deals for better net access.

response 2 of 61:

Sep 25 17:16 UTC 1995

I was talking to Ameritech today about non-Grex-related things, and
found out that they're in the middle of one of their sales.  Right now
you can get a business line installed without paying the $42 fee.
Is it worth putting higher priority on the staff line, and thinking
about additional user lines, now?  And, will this save us any money
on ISDN or Centrex installation?

response 4 of 61:

Sep 25 20:52 UTC 1995

I believe that the staff line, at least, should be explored while the sale
is still going on.  Anything else that would involve buying new lines should
also be looked at, but the staff line should, I believe, be top priority for
the duration of the sale.

response 6 of 61:

Sep 26 12:09 UTC 1995

What I mean is this:  for the sale period, the staff line should be able to
bump anything else from the schedule, if need be.  That is what I mean by "top
priority".  If, for example, srw had the either-or option to get the Sun-4
up a day sooner, or saving $42 on staff line installation, the "higher
priority" item (in this case, the line, since it is "top priority") would get
done.  But if gregc had no idea what to do about the line, and had time to
wait for popcorn to do it, then he would ignore it, and work on getting the
Sun-4 up.  I'm not saying either of these situations will occur, I'm just
explaining what I mean by the concept of "priority".

response 8 of 61:

Sep 27 06:12 UTC 1995

  I think y'all did a great job prioritizing things.  Harder than usual,
especially on the later items, since it's hard to foresee actual needs
after the Sun 4 is in place.  Thanks for everyones effort!
 
  A comment on memory cards: $300 sounds perhaps optimistic.  It's possible,
but unless you know a source, maybe budget for $500 until it's bought?
 
  Two thoughts on Usenet: (1) users do want it, but it seems like it will
need a lot of on-going maintenance time.  Initial/recurring cost are ok,
but initial/recurring effort probably exceed the other five items combined.
Worth considering when prioritizing.  (2) It might not be the best pick for
a fund raiser, as the time from funding to when it's running is likely to
be at least a couple months, longer than other improvements.
 
  I think user lines should be added as needed.  If they're often busy in
three months, but we're still on item 2, I'd say bump this up from item 5.
Even now, adding one line seems reasonable, especially given the sale.
 
  I'm not sure this was brought up; another improvement mighttbe to upgrade
2400 modems to 14.4 (to run at 9600) when/(if) the term server is used.
Definitely low priority, but it would be neat to list 761-3000 as 9600!

response 10 of 61:

Sep 27 08:14 UTC 1995

The staff line is listed at $182 one-time cost, of which $100 is a modem.
I believe that this line can be implemented with the use of a modem
that we are already in possession of, and that is otherwise unusable,
due to a lack of "dumb mode". If I am right, that $100 should be deleted.

response 12 of 61:

Sep 27 14:16 UTC 1995

Yup, there are two spare 9600 baud modems, without dumb modes, sitting
in the dungeon.

response 14 of 61:

Sep 27 16:17 UTC 1995

  Yes, the Supra, if all goes well with it, should be OK for this
purpose.

   Rane, I would hope that we will carry the "main" newgroups of
alt, comp, sci, misc, soc, talk, news and mi heirarchies, as well
as whatever other things we can carry.  My thoughts are that we
really want to try and get a 4G disk for this, so we can have some
of period of time to read things before they have to expire.

response 16 of 61:

Sep 27 19:35 UTC 1995

If we get the staff line during the sale, and use a modem already in our
possession, then we could knock down one-time costs for the staff line to a
mere $40 !!!  :-))

response 18 of 61:

Sep 28 05:11 UTC 1995

We approved the staff line at the board meeting tonight, as well as more
memory.

response 20 of 61:

Sep 30 20:05 UTC 1995

Re #17:  That was my opinion, as well.

Re #18:  Yea !!!

response 22 of 61:

Oct 3 13:44 UTC 1995

It seems like Grex might want to at least consider life beyond VME-bus
Suns for its next system (like a SPARCStation 2).  New memory would
make the jump very costly, but it seems an inevitable transition at
some point.
 
Hmm...I wouldn't argue against getting cheap drives for news, but I
thought HP were as low quality as they get?  There are cheaper drives,
and if memory serves, I doubt they'd be worse.  Oh well, by the time
we get around to buying them, drives will probably be half the current
price anyway!  :-)

response 24 of 61:

Oct 3 20:58 UTC 1995

Huh...ok...they're often a lot cheaper than other top brands.
$200 per gig is definitely a good price for a quality brand!