response 1 of 142:

Jan 18 22:16 UTC 1995

Would the co-op conf F-W please link this.

response 3 of 142:

Jan 18 23:17 UTC 1995

chi1taxi's thesis assumes that Grex is here to serve those that put up the
money in order to obtain services as "incentives". This is what all the
commercial providers do. However, the founders of Grex, and I think most
members, believe Grex is here to serve the public, using donations from a
membership that believes this is a worthwhile purpose. So, here we are
again, discussing whether Grex is a non-profit charitable corporation, or,
say, a cooperative. I suppose it is worthwhile revisiting this issue now
and then, in order to keep Grex's purposes clarified and strengthened, but
I hope that looking at the money-making potential of Grex does not divert
us from our founding purposes.

response 5 of 142:

Jan 18 23:52 UTC 1995

Is it just MLink that begins charging, or is it every MichNet
site, or MichNet as a whole that will charge?  Are there any
other servers in the state that folks can use to connect
with us for free, besides MLink and MSU-gopher?

We're already getting more phone lines when we move, right?
How much will it cost to get extra phone lines activated
later on?  (I know someone told me this a long time ago,
but I've forgotten, sorry.)

I'd like to find a solution to this, that will allow our
distant Michigan users to stay connected with us.  But trying
to extort more money from the users is not a good answer.

And I have to ask, chi1taxi, why MLink's charging for access
means we need to get Usenet working again right away.  I just
don't see the connection.

response 7 of 142:

Jan 19 00:29 UTC 1995

The only access I have to Usenet News is to telnet msu-gopher via UofM.
Tell me if we can get there directly from Grex.  Also, msu might take the
same policy as u o m.

response 9 of 142:

Jan 19 00:37 UTC 1995

4seNR
Rane, Vd~
Rane, I beleive Grex should serve its members first, non-payers after 
membership is satisfied.  To say this is somehow unholy or profiteering is
dead wrong.  I don't think it's too much to ask for a paying member to be 
able to get in w/o having the phone lines tied up by "freeloaders>"  Yes,
Rane,, we do have freeloaders on Grex.  There are loads of people who put
heavy use of our facilities w/o paying a mere $60./yr who can well afford it
and many of these a+cnre   are probably "commercial users," people who
are using it in the course of doing business, making money.  It stinks when
we've got to go through all sorts of changes w. a very unreliable link to
msu-gopher to get Usenet news.  
Let's get off AI>AQZ
Let' get off some of that $2000. kitty we're sitting on and reinstall
usenet news.
Chicago  Taxi Willie

response 11 of 142:

Jan 19 01:11 UTC 1995

It would really help the discussion if we know which of
those it was.  So let me ask you, chi1taxi, if it came to
a choice between maintaining access for non-local Michigan
users, and getting Usenet running on Grex again, which would you
consider more important?

If all you need is Usenet access, and you're a paying member,
I can show you how to use a remote news server to read
news here.  That's how I've kept my addiction satisfied.  >8)

And I, for one, would rather see us find a way to
stay available for those users.

response 13 of 142:

Jan 19 03:06 UTC 1995

I have to strongly disasgree with Bill when he says that Grex should only
serve the non paying users after it has served the members.  One of the
best things about Grex is that it is a public access system.  Having a
system where anybody is welcome not only provides an important community
service, but also provides a much broader perspective in our conferences. 
If Grex stops being a public access system, it will lose its two greatest
strengths -- its conferences and its people.  As far as being free loaders
go, they're no more freeloaders than Bill apparrently is on Michnet and
gomlink, if the access restrictions are going to affect him.

response 15 of 142:

Jan 19 03:24 UTC 1995

Anybody who is looking for USENET news to use until Grex is up again,
telnet to   launchpad.unc.edu     They have trn, rn, and lynx readers
for USENET. And, It's free for the picking. Also, if Grex were to get the
high speed modems on all lines I would pay more money for membership.
Especially if Grex gets GUI :)

response 17 of 142:

Jan 19 03:29 UTC 1995

   Because usenet is a fantastic conferencing system, thats why.  As good
as the PicoSpan paradigm is, it can't easily extend to hundreds of thousands
of users.  There are usenet groups on everything you can imagine, and more
that you can't.
   Lots of people want usenet access here, including me.  When we say that
Grex's focus is on computer conferencing, I think it includes usenet too.

response 19 of 142:

Jan 19 04:27 UTC 1995

Usenet is a wonderful resource, but it is also one that is available lots
of other places.  It will be great to get Usenet back on Grex, and should
be a somewhat high priority.  Still, if it would drag the rest of Grex
down in the way it would to run it on the same machine or over the same
Internet link as the rest of Grex, I couldn't support it.  It is because
the current plans call for a seperate server and a seperate Internet link
that I support them.

response 21 of 142:

Jan 19 04:45 UTC 1995

Bill, if you believe Grex should serve its members first, non-payers after
membership is satisfied, then you don't understand the bases upon which
Grex is incorporated as a non-profit, charitable organization. Read the
Articles of Incorporation. There is scope for charging for some services,
the cost of which would not be tax deductible as are the membership
donation (dues),n (IMO), but that must be a limited to a small fraction of
the dues, with the majority of the income from donations being used for
charitable purposes - i.e., providing conferencing and other educational
resources to the public.                            

response 23 of 142:

Jan 19 06:57 UTC 1995

There may be other places to read usenet news, but what about free posting
privileges.  When grex had usenet, members could post.