When who has used Grex dies

Jan 10 22:36 UTC 1995

   This is something I thought about entering here a couple of
years ago, but since it wasn't needed at the time, I avoided it.

   What should we do with the personal files of that we know has
died?  I am of course referring to mlady.

   In this particular case, its not a porblem in the disk-space
sense: she was using about 18 blocks of disk.  But her mail file
does have someting in it, so staff could use the discussion here.
I don't think we've had to even think about this before, have we?
I've taken the liberty of changing the password to Barbara's account
until we decide what to do.

response 2 of 65:

Jan 10 23:26 UTC 1995

This is a rather difficult question.
I have a few similar thoughts, and some more I'd like to say, unfortunately
it's going to have to wait until my next call.  :(

response 4 of 65:

Jan 12 00:17 UTC 1995

If I still have stuff on Grex when I die, I would like the stuff put on disk
anand paper and then sent to the address listed.  I have other files with 
personal writings which I would like my kids and wife to read.  Of course I
don't have anything scandalous on file here.  But, what if I did?  Maybe we
should ask the question when someone signs on?  Do you want the files on Grex
forwarded?  They shouldn't be destroyed in the event they are  subpoenaed. 
Could be a sticky business.

response 6 of 65:

Jan 12 04:20 UTC 1995

Unless andyv is up to something we don't want to know about, I think
it's unlikely we'd have to worry about his files being subpoena'd.  Even
if that's likely, that doesn't mean we need to turn into electronic
pack-rats.  We're not a financial or legal institution, and we are under
no obligation to save data past what common sense would dictate.  Any
policy we choose that respects the public and private rights of our
users is acceptable to the law.  The university of michigan, in order to
partially avoid the responsibilty of deciding those rights, chooses to
not make electronic backups of e-Mail.

A reasonable solution would be to decide on a general policy for "what
do we do if a person dies" and have the members vote on it.  We should
consider the privacy interests of the members and the nuisance to us, as
well as the value to the next of kin and any other interested parties.
(A good example of the possible nuisance would be to consider the amount
of paper that would be necessary to send a copy of John Remmer's files
to Mary, should John die.  I doubt either John or Mary would consider
this a good idea.)  There may also be people here would rather not have
all their e-mail sent to their parents, even if they are dead.

response 8 of 65:

Jan 12 07:17 UTC 1995

University business files go to the university, and personal files to the
next of kin, or possibly to colleagues, as specified in the will. In
regard to who is responsible for the possible presence of "scandalous"
materials - that's the deceased's and heirs' problem: exactly the same
question arises about a shoe box of letters. 

I think the best policy is to ask the deceased's executor(s) if they want
these electronic records, and if they do offer them as *electronic*
records on diskette or or by file transfer. Conversion to paper records
should be up to the executor(s). 

response 10 of 65:

Jan 12 23:03 UTC 1995

brenda's idea presumes too much competance on teh part of the
next of kin, even as it is a good idea.
  
kentn's #1 is just about the right solution. And i would favor
teh paper records being sent. 

response 12 of 65:

Jan 13 02:56 UTC 1995

  I asked a friend about this tonight, and his idea rather appealed to
me.  He thinks we should delete the private files right now.  Since the
mail was to this particular person and no one else, it really isn't anyone
elses to read.  What good could come of the family of the deceased reading
it?  Moreover, what bad might come about?  What if they were on a mailing
list that they wouldn't have wanted the family to know about?

   It's something to think about.

response 14 of 65:

Jan 13 04:50 UTC 1995

Re 11: yes, next of kin isn't always right, although I suggested
"kin" as perhaps the easiest to locate and ask.  Hopefully, an
executor could be located easily, although I'm sure, just as with
banks, and other businesses, people may start accounts/be in mid-
transaction when they die and said bank or business has no idea
who to contact.  I don't believe that a person's personal effects
should be deleted based on a Grex staffer's opinion of the harm that
might come from any files.  The executor, as ajax says, should be
the one to make that decision, and, I assume, that executor has
the power of attorney to read the deceased's mail, to pay bills on
their behalf, etc.
  Fortunately (and/or hopefully) this isn't a situation that will
arise very often.  I don't see such a situation as a mad scramble
or otherwise taxing situation for staff (to write files to a floppy
and send them off, assuming an executor can be located).  I do find
it ironic that staff go to great pains to back up accounts before
they are reaped, but when a user is unable to participate due to
death, we contemplate getting rid of that user's personal effects.

response 16 of 65:

Jan 13 06:19 UTC 1995

Re #12: your friend, STeve, is stating a personal opinion, and one that
does not consider either the law or morality of death. People do do
all sorts of things with the effects of decedents (such as shredding
or burning them), but that is of course all illegal. Since everone
is going to die, eveyone should put a little thought into this, and
specify in a will what they want done with their effects. If they don't,
the State does what it wants with those effects. So, everyone, write
down what you want done with your records on grex, and put it in a safe
place (like a safe deposit box) - and that takes care of it.

response 18 of 65:

Jan 13 15:21 UTC 1995

Yesterday Rob (ajax) asked me: "What would *you* want done with your
files on Grex if you died?"  I thought it was a good question we might
each want to ask ourselves.  My own first answer was "delete it all --
there's nothing of value there".  Now that I think about it, there's
some small amount of user documentation in my account that might be
useful to someone, but, beyond that, everything in my account can be
deleted and nobody will miss it.

That doesn't really answer the question at hand, though: what to do
with someone *else's* files.

response 20 of 65:

Jan 13 17:34 UTC 1995

   Indeed they do.  Yes Rane, I'm aware that my friend was ignoring
'the law' on this issue, maybe, but I think I like that approach
better than anything else I've heard lately.
   What newsgroup would be appropriate to ask about this in?  I'm curious
what other systems do.

response 22 of 65:

Jan 13 18:29 UTC 1995

I also did what ajax mentioned: I gleaned names and addresses of
recent correspondents and sent them notices of the death. Some 

response 24 of 65:

Jan 14 02:23 UTC 1995

        Popcorn's question was a good one.
        I would want my publicly-readable files to be saved if they were
useful to anyone, but I would want my private files to die with me.  If I
wanted anyone to have my private files, I would make them accessible while
I am still alive.
        In the absence of any express statement to the contrary, the best the
staff knows is what the user did while still alive.  No one else should
read a file that is left private.  No one would question that if the user
were still alive, would they?  It seems just as clear to me if the user has
died.