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Grex > Coop6 > #64: Better communication w/user&members | |
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| Author |
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andyv
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Better communication w/user&members
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Dec 25 00:55 UTC 1994 |
I would like to discuss some was to communicate better with the users
and members of Grex. Reading all the info in this conference will be
done by very few folks. So those who do read this one have a responsibility
to let the other folks stay abreast of some of the discussion and especially
our goals sprinkled with relevant stats.
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| 51 responses total. |
andyv
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response 1 of 51:
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Dec 25 01:07 UTC 1994 |
Some relevant stats would be the number of members, # of users, daily usage
how we are funded, next hardware item to be purchased w/reason, average
monthly income and expense, volunteer hours donated.
I would like to see the above in tabular form with added text as concise as
possible.
The message of the day should have something new daily to keep people from
ignoring it. (I must confess to this :-) A joke or a riddle might get
someone to keep checking. I listen to NPR (National Public Radio) every
Sunday for the weekly word puzzle. Or maybe something else?
Maybe we could have a bar graph indicating the amount needed for the next
purchase like United Way does for their campaigns?
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steve
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response 2 of 51:
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Dec 25 05:36 UTC 1994 |
I have some of that stuff, but not in public places. I should get
them out and working properly, etc. There is a file called
/usr/stats/folk.log and /usr/stats/ttyuse.log that record usage, in
terms of logins per day, and ttyuse has login records for each tty.
Your comment about a few people talking is interesting. There are
always a much smaller number of people talking in PicoSpan, than listening.
If 10% of the participants are actively talking, its a good sign. This
is pretty much common too. Confer II usage at the Umiversity of Michigan
is much like that, too. Usenet news groups are even worse--something like
1 in 100 people talk there, on average.
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kentn
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response 3 of 51:
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Dec 25 05:56 UTC 1994 |
And there are always a fewer number of people actually doing in any
organization. The trick is to get more people involved; you have to
reach them first, though, as andyv points out. Unfortunately, many of
those not actively involved in running grex could not possibly care
less about grex...
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mju
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response 4 of 51:
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Dec 25 08:04 UTC 1994 |
Don't you mean /var/stats, STeve? :-)
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popcorn
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response 5 of 51:
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Dec 25 13:24 UTC 1994 |
Having more Grex get-togethers (potlucks, grexpeditions to restaurants,
and suchlike) might work to get at least local people to feel more like
"grex insiders", and hence to get more involved with running the system.
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andyv
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response 6 of 51:
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Dec 25 14:52 UTC 1994 |
I would sure like to be an insider by getting together with you folks,
but I can't like so many others on Grex. Are most of the people on Grex
really uninterested concerning the inner workings of Grex, or have we
who become insiders by participating in coop forgotten to provide a means
by which others can become knowledgeable?
I just assumed that an organization which allowed immediate access with an
id was fully funded. Then I found that I could get help when I needed it
which worked on imagination creating a picture of a large well organized
group of people in a large suite (ho ho ho ;-). Next I found out I could
have access to Unix, which meant that this group must really have confidence,
my mythical image grew more impressive. When I finally ventured into
the BBS I was blown away by the vastness of the discussions going on, which
reminded me of a huge conference center, so I fled. The election problem
made me want to check if my imagination squared with reality.
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robh
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response 7 of 51:
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Dec 25 16:02 UTC 1994 |
<robh sits back in his recliner in the Grex Help Suite, sipping
a cinnamon French soda and smiling at the extra pay he's getting
for manning the Grex help terminal (486SX, supoer VGA, the works)
on Christmas day>
NOT!!!
In a way, I'm glad that people think so highly of us, having done
so much with so little. On the other hand, people do tend to
assume there's an "inner circle" or the people who really run
Grex, and they wield the supreme power over all of the other
users. The fact is, the "inner circle" consists of anyone
(and everyone) who offers to do something for Grex. And that's it.
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gerund
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response 8 of 51:
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Dec 25 16:57 UTC 1994 |
Indeed.
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kentn
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response 9 of 51:
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Dec 25 17:51 UTC 1994 |
Um, there *is* an inner circle at Grex, whether you choose to believe
it or not. For example, not all offers of help are accepted by
the small number of people who organize such things as Grex outings
or Dungeon construction. And, not everyone on Grex has root
privileges, which is close to having supreme power. Nor does
everyone have access to Grex's machine room (such as it is). This
does not mean that those with power on Grex run roughshod over the
other users, however. But there definitely is an inner circle and
always has been.
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rcurl
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response 10 of 51:
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Dec 25 21:10 UTC 1994 |
I think you are overextending the "inner circle" metaphor. There are
groups of volunteers responsible for doing different things. Yes, some of
these groups control very essential functions, such as system management
(and have root), but it is the organization that freely decided upon this
arrangement in order to make the whole thing work. What you are describing
as an "inner circle" in some respect is better described as a "cliche" -
the group(s) of people that know one another and feel comfortable working
together.
It is often difficult to break into chiches, but I've certainly seen it
done here, and I've also seen the chiches be quite welcoming to newcomers,
although not always knowing how to include the newcomers easily and
effectively. Maybe it would just take some more thinking and talking about
these social things that will lead to better communications
w/user&members.
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kentn
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response 11 of 51:
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Dec 25 23:51 UTC 1994 |
Do you mean "clique" Rane? (I'm sure "inner circle" can be considered
a "cliche" if that's what you want to say, though). I prefer the term
"inner circle" because that is how I interpret the situation. Calling
it a "clique" does nothing to diminish its effects.
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andyv
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response 12 of 51:
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Dec 26 00:09 UTC 1994 |
I think Kent understands what I mean by inner circle (not negatively).
We have a vast number of i.d.'s who neither contribute $ nor opinions.
We have another group which contributes $ and not even the time to vote.
There are an inner circle who contribute $ and opinions.
Then there is a core of people who seem to contribute much of their lives.
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rcurl
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response 13 of 51:
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Dec 26 04:19 UTC 1994 |
Yes, I meant "clique". Just couldn't call up the spelling at that moment
8-<. "Inner circle" doesn't have quite the social and *multiple* sense of
"cliques". It sounds more like an autocracy. That, we don't have. How
about calling the group that contribute $$ and opinions the "active
members"? That doesn't convey the sense of "control", that inner circle
does (to me). Anyway, *I am not part of any inner circle*, in case you
were wondering. I'm just an active member, and was elected to the board by
active members. I am not ominious, or omnipresent (but I hang around a
lot).
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steve
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response 14 of 51:
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Dec 26 05:12 UTC 1994 |
No Marc, I actaully did mean that the folk.log and ttyuse.log
files currently reside in /usr/stats. They *should* be over in
/var/stats, and in fact they are, but the scripts somehow started
writing to /usr/stats/again. That'll be fixed.
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steve
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response 15 of 51:
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Dec 26 05:35 UTC 1994 |
Its interesting (and nice) to see that people can think that Grex
is some large-ish organization, with a real staff, and all that.
...Boy, do I wish. ;-) (well, the hardware part would be nice).
As for as cliques go, I think we're pretty open. I hope we are.
If we aren't, we should be hearing about it. There is a more closed
layer that the staff keeps, but that is for security reasons. Poliy
things are in the open, here in coop.
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andyv
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response 16 of 51:
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Dec 26 15:27 UTC 1994 |
How are we going to communicate the feelings that have been expressed here
to the other people who visit here and other members? Grex is unique
(or almost unique in "cyberspace"). Therefore, people will remain ignorant
about how different Grex is without the active members trying to communicate
outside of the active membership.
I've seen some suggwestions about sending info by snail mail. So why can't
we send the members a news letter by e-mail. Would it be practical to e-mail
all the users?
I think people in general expect a corporation to be authoritarian, uncaring,
unchangeable from the bottom.......the adversary :-( Many people automatically
fall into the role of using any corporation to the max as a matter of
justifyable survival. Some people look at the government and governance the
same way.
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steve
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response 17 of 51:
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Dec 26 17:18 UTC 1994 |
I have to first ask, should people know about all the goings in
back of things? Of course its available to anyone who wants it, but
should be foist it on people? I do agree that we should better let
people know how to look for things, but then I favor letting those who
want to get involved to so.
This means that most people won't get involved. While I think that
they should become more connected, I don't think we can "make" them.
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kentn
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response 18 of 51:
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Dec 26 18:15 UTC 1994 |
If we know more about how Grex's systems operate, we (the users) are
more likely to see needs and volunteer to help meet them.
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steve
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response 19 of 51:
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Dec 26 22:23 UTC 1994 |
I agree fully--I'm only saying that it isn't forced on people.
Just have a better system than we currently have to explain to
folks whats going on.
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kentn
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response 20 of 51:
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Dec 27 00:22 UTC 1994 |
(I had to make :18 short because of the system reboot that was taking
place a couple minutes after that response). I'm not sure that keeping
people informed of Grex's needs, successes, hopes, etc. is forcing
anyone to do anything. If such information were communicated in a
newsletter (e-mail, I suppose), the uninterested have the opportunity
to delete it without viewing it. Or maybe a very short e-mail message
with instructions for accessing the newsletter on-line in some other
fashion (lynx, or whatever) might be more palatable?
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remmers
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response 21 of 51:
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Dec 27 12:51 UTC 1994 |
I like the idea of an email newsletter.
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andyv
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response 22 of 51:
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Dec 27 15:43 UTC 1994 |
Do we have a consensus? If so, how do we go about putting one together
(a news letter)?
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andyv
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response 23 of 51:
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Dec 27 17:39 UTC 1994 |
Even with a news letter, we won't reach all the members. I waded through
the member list and found about 25 out of 92 have not logged in since
Dec 20. 13 have not logged in since Dec 10. 7 are listed as never logged
in which means they haven't been on since sometime in Nov when the info was
lost. These are not exact because I didn't finger the names I thought
looked familiar.
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steve
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response 24 of 51:
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Dec 27 18:02 UTC 1994 |
One possible explaination for 25 people not logging on since 12/20
is that school related things are heating up by then. I think that we're
always going to see a certain number of people who won't have logged on
in a while--remember the time around 5/92 to 10/92 that I wasn't around
much?
If a few people think its an OK idea, I think someone should move
the ball in a forward direction. I mean, if there are those who *don't*
like it, they can be ommited from the mailing list (or whatever). ;-)
Question is, who will step forward to get said ball moving?
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