|
Grex > Coop6 > #45: Harrassment in "write" sessions | |
|
| Author |
Message |
popcorn
|
|
Harrassment in "write" sessions
| 
Dec 4 03:29 UTC 1994 |
In the past two days, I've heard from two people, call them A and B, who
were having a problem with unsolicicited write sessions from people who
bombarded them with questions, didn't reveal anything about themselves,
and who eventually steered the conversation around to sex, after which
they wouldn't talk about anything else. In both cases, A & B clearly told
the twits that they were uncomfortable talking about sex with someone they
didn't know, and that they'd like to talk about some other topic. The
twits persisted, insisting they wanted to talk about sex.
I'm very uncomfortable knowing that this kind of harrassment is happening
on Grex. Also, A and B are long-time Grexers, who knew how to get out of
a write session, and that this kind of write session is abnormal. They
knew to talk to staff. What's a newbie to do when confronted with this?
What's a newbie going to think of our system? Yuck!
What should we do about this?
|
| 115 responses total. |
robh
|
|
response 1 of 115:
|
Dec 4 04:09 UTC 1994 |
Sad to say, I was a victim of the same thing today, probably
from the same user too. I tried to steer the conversation away,
but this twit would have none of that... I just signed
off the system, fortunately I was planning on doing that
anyway...
I'd say zap his account, but I'm biased. >8)
|
popcorn
|
|
response 2 of 115:
|
Dec 4 04:40 UTC 1994 |
(Every time I do a "w" and see write sessions in progress, I worry.)
|
mwarner
|
|
response 3 of 115:
|
Dec 4 06:16 UTC 1994 |
Write or talk type programs are very useful, but seem more than slightly
subject to abuse. SOmething like the file usage message explaining how to
turn permission on and off might be worth considering, or even a
simplified program to do that could be placed on menu if possible. On the
other hand, we can't manage every little facet of use or else there'd be a
10 screen series of warnings and options for new users to page through.
I've had some chitchatty requests from people I don't know and I generally
treat them like people who might call me at home and just start chatting:
Not particularly warmly. (I mean never had discussions in conference or
e-mail or met).
|
kentn
|
|
response 4 of 115:
|
Dec 4 06:49 UTC 1994 |
Right, I think if you're going to use write or talk, you should treat
it like a telephone. I wouldn't call a random person in the phone
book, start asking them personal questions, or start making lewd
remarks, without expecting to get hung up on (at the least). That
doesn't keep others from doing so, but I expect the result is mostly
the same (hang up). If you want to talk to someone on the telephone,
it's because you have something to say of importance (unless you
really know the person you are calling, and know that they enjoy
small talk).
Same thing with write/talk.
|
rcurl
|
|
response 5 of 115:
|
Dec 4 07:50 UTC 1994 |
I have mesg y anytime I'm in Picospan. I have had writes like popcorn
describes on about two occasions over the past 6+ months. I refuse to go
along with personal questions unless they develop naturally in a two-way
conversation. Maybe we should have someone watching this, and ask users to
copy and send on all such exchanges. It would then be possible to
determine whether a particular user is causing harrassment.
|
popcorn
|
|
response 6 of 115:
|
Dec 4 13:50 UTC 1994 |
Rob (ajax) suggested automatically doing a "mesg n" for all users.
Then the ones who want to chat can do a "mesg y" if they like.
That also simplifies things for the new users who are confused about
what to do when they see a "message from foo on ttyzz" appear on their
screen. Folks can always join party if they want to talk to other
live users.
To me, this sounds like a tremendous decrease of openness on the system
and not a very good option. But I thought I'd toss it out for discussion.
What do other folks think?
(Please also do continue discussing the original topic.)
|
remmers
|
|
response 7 of 115:
|
Dec 4 14:59 UTC 1994 |
Before we go making system-wide changes that affect everybody, I'd like
to have some confidence that we're not overreacting. #0 refers to
becoming aware of a problem in the past couple of days. Well then,
perhaps it's just a couple of people who have decided to be annoying
and will go away when they get bored with it. That's happened before.
|
chelsea
|
|
response 8 of 115:
|
Dec 4 17:21 UTC 1994 |
There are some nifty tools already available for folks who need 'em.
I'd suggest we focus on educating users about the options and then
letting them do what best suits their needs.
|
jshafer
|
|
response 9 of 115:
|
Dec 4 19:36 UTC 1994 |
I've encountered at least one of these twits already, which has
prompted me to turn mesg off on my .login file. I hate to think
of how a new user would react if someone was acting in an offensive
manner towards them and how that would effect their impression of
Grex, but I'd also hate to move towards a more closed system. The
solution has to be one of education, not of locking up the offending
program, otherwise we will be moving one step towards the type of
system that I want nothing to do with. <just my $.02>
|
robh
|
|
response 10 of 115:
|
Dec 4 21:00 UTC 1994 |
I agree with chelsea and others, giving all new users "mesg n"
is not the answer, telling them how to use it and that it's
okay not to talk to someone who writes them is the best solution.
|
remmers
|
|
response 11 of 115:
|
Dec 4 22:14 UTC 1994 |
At the risk of suggesting yet more software work: One approach
to educating users would be to have the 'write' program print a
message to the receiver of a chat request, stating how to respond
to the request and how to reject it.
The message should be short, and there should be a way to disable
it, so that experienced users wouldn't have to see it.
|
scg
|
|
response 12 of 115:
|
Dec 4 22:50 UTC 1994 |
(for the record, you can stop a write session in progress with "mesg N"
(without the quotes))
I'm saddened to see that this is happening on Grex, but I don't like the
idea of turning fof mesg n for everybody. I do, from time to time, get
chat requests from people I don't know, and usually if I'm too busy to
talk right then a polite "I'm really busy right now, can we talk some
other time instead?" works quite well. The times I have actually started
participating in these random conversations have actually, for the most
part, been positive experiences. There are twits out there, but more
often it is just somebody with no clue about what they can do on Grex who
will really appreciate pointers to conferences or party.
|
srw
|
|
response 13 of 115:
|
Dec 5 05:12 UTC 1994 |
I agree with scg. I leave my flag on.
Re jshafer's 9: doesn't the fact that you put mesg n in your .login mean that
you are already one step closer to that closed system you wish to avoid?
|
tsty
|
|
response 14 of 115:
|
Dec 5 10:10 UTC 1994 |
I certainly wouldn't support a defacto mesg n as part of
newuser. This problem is always a potential just like helicopters
falling out of the sky - but helicopters aren't going away.
I've had a few chats like that - i don't even keep track (well,
I never started to either). And it's happened *as* I was
logging in newusers too. (one of those was v-e-r-y interesting).
It's a nuisance, not a panic.
|
jshafer
|
|
response 15 of 115:
|
Dec 9 00:16 UTC 1994 |
re #9: No. It was my choice, and I have the ability to turn it back
on if I so choose. (In fact, I will as soon as I get a chance to get
caught up on conferences and mail and the like...) My reason for
turning mesg n on was because I don't have time for these twits, not
because I find them so offensive. (I can always !mesg N to get rid of
someone I really don't want to talk to)
|
jshafer
|
|
response 16 of 115:
|
Dec 9 00:18 UTC 1994 |
<make that re #13>
|
janc
|
|
response 17 of 115:
|
Dec 10 23:59 UTC 1994 |
Hmm...what's most needed is better education of users on how to (1) respond
to "Message from" things and (2) disconnect ones they don't want. Might
be good to expand the "Message from" with a very short description of how
to reply (type !chat to reply), and a help command built into write that
would be pointed to by the novice help message that is printed by write
for users iwth the NOVICE environment variable (is grex using that?). The
help file raised by the help command would be lengthy, covering everything
from manners to nifty commands. Probably cleanest implimentation would be
just to have users type !chathelp to get the helpfile. Only actual code
modification for this would be to provide the reply instructions in the
"Message from" line.
|
popcorn
|
|
response 18 of 115:
|
Dec 11 16:32 UTC 1994 |
Nope, no NOVICE environment variable. It's not a bad idea, though.
|
janc
|
|
response 19 of 115:
|
Dec 11 23:49 UTC 1994 |
I put it into write with the idea that eventually various utilities could
be trained to change their behavior for NOVICE users. But I think only
write currently uses it on M-Net, even though the NOVICE thing has been
set in .login's given to newusers for years.
|
mdw
|
|
response 20 of 115:
|
Dec 12 03:39 UTC 1994 |
The studies I've heard of that have studied the effectiveness of
"novice" or "learning" modes show that they generally don't work like
one would expect. The theory behind such things is that people will use
them like training wheels, to become familiar with the commands, then
turn them off, like discarding training wheels, once they're comfortable
with the commands. In fact, what happens is that people get trained to
depend upon whatever extra information they're given, and a rather small
percentage then turn them off. What's happening is rather like trying
to learn to touch type, after having learned to do "hunt & peck".
|
tsty
|
|
response 21 of 115:
|
Dec 16 18:32 UTC 1994 |
In the particular case that janc mentions (not the generality
of "novice" modes), each time there is a process called, there is
an inserted "first screen" before the process is continued - each
adn every time that process is called.
That sort of reinforcement has a much better methodology than
a single-time "first screen."
|
popcorn
|
|
response 22 of 115:
|
Dec 18 00:40 UTC 1994 |
So, has anybody been harrassed in write sessions recently, or does
the problem seem to have blown over?
|
kentn
|
|
response 23 of 115:
|
Dec 18 00:42 UTC 1994 |
Not since I put 'mesg n' in my .login
|
robh
|
|
response 24 of 115:
|
Dec 18 03:41 UTC 1994 |
This particular twerp disappeared a few days later, I haven't even
seen him on-line here since.
|