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Grex > Coop6 > #121: Cyberspace Communications Finances Through Feb. 28, 1995 |  |
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danr
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Cyberspace Communications Finances Through Feb. 28, 1995
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Mar 8 15:25 UTC 1995 |
Here is the treasurer's report on Cyberspace Communications, Inc.
finances through February 28, 1995.
General Fund
Beginning Balance $3971.20
Credits $ 520.00 membership dues
$ 7.00 dumb error I made
Debits $- 25.00 Dungeon Rent
$- 30.00 estimated electricity payment
$- 20.00 Innovative Concepts phone line
$-382.16 our first phone bill!!
$- 15.00 corporation registration fee to
the state of MI
$-324.26 reimbursement to Marc Unangst
for router components
$- 83.22 reimbursement to Steve Andre
for moving expenses
$- 30.00 refund of membership dues
$- 4.52 bank service charge
--------
Total $3564.04
February was an average month as far as the amount of money
collected. What is notable, though, is that we continued to
attract new members. We had nine new members last month. Again,
thanks to all those who contributed.
The biggest debit on this month's balance sheet is our first
phone bill--a whopping $382. Before you all get excited, let me
assure you this is *will not* be a typical phone bill. This
amount includes a quarter of the phone installation charges
($95), charges for half of February, and charges for all of
March. We also had a fairly high number of calls to IC Net, a
situation I think we've fixed now.
Since spring is right around the corner, don't you think it's
time for you to spring for a membership?? Dues are only $6/month
or $60/year (CHEAP!). Send cash, checks, or money orders to:
Cyberspace Communications, Inc.
2113 Arborview Boulevard
Ann Arbor, MI 48103
Thanks!
ps. If you're paying by cash or money order, please, please,
please include a photocopy of some piece of identification. I
can't add you to the membership rolls if I don't receive this
i.d. Thanks!
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| 27 responses total. |
nephi
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response 1 of 27:
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Mar 8 20:40 UTC 1995 |
Refund of membership dues?
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chelsea
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response 2 of 27:
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Mar 8 22:11 UTC 1995 |
This item has been linked from Agora to Co-op.
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zook
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response 3 of 27:
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Mar 9 00:39 UTC 1995 |
Why did we get a service charge?
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steve
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response 4 of 27:
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Mar 9 06:20 UTC 1995 |
There was a user who wished to remain anonymous, yet receive full
membership status, which includes things like telnet and FTP. But
since they did not provide ID, they couldn't become a member. We
then refunded the money to them.
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tsty
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response 5 of 27:
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Mar 9 09:30 UTC 1995 |
That sounds a whole lot like the exclusivity of purchase of
services; purchase refused. Nothing like a "donation."
If Grex refunded the $$$ how could that have been accomplished
without the identification of an address ... even to "resident."
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danr
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response 6 of 27:
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Mar 9 12:16 UTC 1995 |
The money was refunded to another user whose address we did know.
We usually incur a service charge. This varies, decpending on the
amount in our account, the number of checks cashed, and a couple of
other things.
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steve
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response 7 of 27:
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Mar 9 13:43 UTC 1995 |
Actually, I'm surprised that a service charge for a business account
isn't more.
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popcorn
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response 8 of 27:
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Mar 9 14:11 UTC 1995 |
A lot of business accounts can't pay interest, so instead they refund
part of your service charge based on how big your bank balance is.
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tsty
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response 9 of 27:
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Mar 9 16:49 UTC 1995 |
Well then ... there was authentication, of sorts, through anohter
member ...can't Grex handle taht?
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wind
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response 10 of 27:
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Mar 9 17:36 UTC 1995 |
re #4:
that should read "couldn't become a verified member." I don't think
Grex has any problems with members who don't want to be verified as
long as the members in questions don't want anything that requires
verification.
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rcurl
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response 11 of 27:
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Mar 9 19:15 UTC 1995 |
There is only one class of Grex membership. It includeds outgoing telnet
privilege, which requires verification. In regard to dues being a donation
- yes, but it is also a contract, with conditions (this is recognized in
state law). You can make any size donation to Grex you want without
becoming a member, but if you donate above the minimum, you can request
membership, in which case the contract terms apply.
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sidhe
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response 12 of 27:
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Mar 9 19:53 UTC 1995 |
Hm. Why didn't they want to verify?
Oh, my! nevermind! I think I know who. I'll go ask them.
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remmers
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response 13 of 27:
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Mar 10 00:46 UTC 1995 |
Re #11: Not quite. A person can elect to be an unverified member.
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wind
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response 14 of 27:
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Mar 10 04:18 UTC 1995 |
re #13:
that's what I said, but I obviously don't carry any weight.
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scg
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response 15 of 27:
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Mar 10 05:13 UTC 1995 |
While a person could be an unverified member, they wouldn't be
able to use the Internet, and it's questinable as to whether we'd be
allowed, under state law, to let them vote. If it turns out that we can't
let an unverified person vote, then I see very little difference between
an unverified membership and an anonymous donation.
What sort of contract would a membership consist of? If a
membership contractually obligates Grex to provide the person with
Internet access, rather than just the right to vote, we have a problem.
The Board, or the membership, could conceivably vote to eliminate Internet
access from Grex (not that that would be likely to happen, but it still
wouldn't be a good idea for it to be thought of as a contractual obligation).
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ajax
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response 16 of 27:
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Mar 10 05:40 UTC 1995 |
That's true, but my impression is that Grex makes a point of not
contractually agreeing to provide members with anything but voting
rights. If internet access were removed, and folks demanded their
membership dues back, I don't think Grex would be under a legal
obligation to comply. On the other hand, especially for isolated
cases, it seems like a reasonable way of smoothing out disputes.
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rcurl
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response 17 of 27:
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Mar 10 07:09 UTC 1995 |
Don't overdo the idea of the membership "contract". What state law says
is that non-profit corporations can specify the privileges of membership
(as well as types of membership). That's the only sense of "contract",
but it is a contract.
remmers, I recall that we permit verified non-members for usenet (if we
ever have it again), but where do we specify there exists a category
of unverified members? Membership privileges must be spelled out in the
bylaws (or articles - by state law), though it is common to have a bylaw
saying membership categories and privileges will be specified by act of
the board (which is always acceptable).
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remmers
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response 18 of 27:
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Mar 11 13:38 UTC 1995 |
There's no "unverified members" category in the bylaws. But on the
other hand, there's no requirement that members be verified either.
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steve
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response 19 of 27:
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Mar 12 08:40 UTC 1995 |
So I think we can have both.
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tsty
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response 20 of 27:
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Mar 12 10:14 UTC 1995 |
I'm sensing some delicacy adn apprehension about this situation.
If the money was returned through a 3rd party, then either the
money's true owner was verifiable or the money went to the wrong
place.
In one case, the true owner has the money, and in the other,
the money was missent -
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remmers
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response 21 of 27:
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Mar 12 13:17 UTC 1995 |
I don't know, but I suspect that the true owner confirmed that the
refund was received.
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ajax
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response 22 of 27:
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Mar 12 21:38 UTC 1995 |
TS, from the discussion of methods of verifying users, the methods
focused on receiving a copy of some identification. I think John is
planning on summarizing the item that discussed appropriate ID for the
next board meeting, but from my recollection, I don't think knowing
a known person was supposed to count for verification.
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rcurl
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response 23 of 27:
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Mar 13 07:49 UTC 1995 |
I meant, remmers, do we specify the category of "unverified members"
anywhere and, if so, where? I agree that the bylaws don't specify
anything about "verification". Do we have members that don't have
telnet access because they are unverified?
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popcorn
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response 24 of 27:
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Mar 13 15:32 UTC 1995 |
I know we've had members like that in the past.
A quick, non-definitive, count of members and internet-users right
now says that all members seem to be internet-users.
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