response 3 of 73:

Feb 28 09:08 UTC 1995

Won't know until we try.

response 5 of 73:

Mar 2 09:09 UTC 1995

Since I won't be at the meeting, I would like to add my two cents now.  I 
would like a heavy emphasis on getting that internet bandwidth increased.  
The deal with Merit looks very attractive to me at $87 per month.  I would
(for one) would be willing to donate more money to help see this
implemented, as I'm sure many others would be willing to do.  This will
also increase membership to help pay for it.  

Since I won't be there, please discuss it for me.  

response 7 of 73:

Mar 2 20:21 UTC 1995

   Unforunately true.  If it were only $84 a month, we'd have done it
already!

response 9 of 73:

Mar 3 03:46 UTC 1995

If I'm remembering correctly, M-Net was doing their link to Merit over a
pair of 9600 bps modems.  That would be a lot slower than our current link.

response 11 of 73:

Mar 3 06:44 UTC 1995

  Interesting idea, as I think M-Net will be dropping it when
they get an ISDN link.  (They're going ahead with that, right?)
  However, it may be of dubious benefit.  M-Net pays at least
$1200/yr for the 9600 connection.  The SCP is old, and there are
no plans for its replacement when it dies.  I think it only
provides access for a few users at once (3? 5?), and M-Netters
have complained of its flakiness (though I dunno how bad it really
is).  Plus Merit's terms may change during its upcoming access
shift...at best, it sounds like only Merit-authorized users could
use the connection, and those users can already use telnet from
Merit through ICNet to Grex.
  It's something to keep in mind, especially once Merit announces
any definite policies and dates, but I think there will be better
deals, in terms of bandwidth per dollar.

response 13 of 73:

Mar 3 17:32 UTC 1995

if it's at U-Towers, it must suck. 

response 15 of 73:

Mar 4 14:50 UTC 1995

Zingerman's Next Door.
In the upstairs.
If it's really crowded, we might need to leave a note and go somewhere
else.

response 17 of 73:

Mar 8 01:07 UTC 1995

Minutes of the 3/5/95 Special Budget Planning meeting

This meeting was convened at 1:30 PM in Zingerman's Next Door (upstairs).
The attendees were popcorn, carl, danr, steve, gregc, scg, ajax and srw.

It was not a board meeting, but rather a planning meeting. No
official action was taken, but a great deal was discussed. This 
information is presented here for public review before the board takes
action based on any of these recommendations.

Valerie presented the agenda. It was (roughly)
(1) Get a treasurer's report and determine the funds available
(2) Go over the list in the planning/budgeting item of coop, and 
    prioritize it according to need
(3) Figure out how much each item costs, approximately.
(4) Figure out what projects to ask the board to finance from the general
    fund, and which projects to recommend approaching via a fundraising
    effort.
    
This agenda was agreeable to all, so we proceeded to it.

(1) Danr gave the financial report. The Grex treasury currently has
approximately $4000. Dan projects monthly income to be about $500/month.
Dan also figured that based on a conservative estimate of monthly expenses
this will produce $175/month which can be applied to these projects

We evaluated the need to set aside a certain amount of that capital
for emergencies -- a "Rainy Day Fund" -- and settled on the figure of
$2000.

this leaves $2000 capital + $175/month to budget for projects and the
staff discretionary portion.

(2) Valerie listed the items that had been posted in coop in the 
"planning/budgeting" item. We then consolidated this list into major areas, 
such that alternate solutions to the same problem became a single item. 
The resulting list was then prioritized. This prioritizing took a large 
portion of this meeting, and I cannot relate all of the discussion, 
but there are some notes following the list which will give an idea of the 
considerations which were taken.

   (1) Additional 32M Ram to replace the borrowed Ram we are running on.

   (2) More local dialup telephone lines.

   (3) Faster processor.
   
   (4) Usenet
   (4) Internet Link upgrade   ( a tie - there was some disagreement )
   
   (6) Faster modems and a terminal server.
   
   (7) More Disk space.
   
Notes:

  (1) was placed first because we are already using this memory.
      Grex bought its own 32MB, and is running on a borrowed 32MB
      for a total of 64MB. We need to replace the memory we borrowed.
      It would be inappropriate for us to spend our money on other
      things until this liability had been resolved.
  
  (2) We looked at ttyuse reports based on 6 lines. We should have two
      more lines in operation within a few days. It was pretty clear
      that even with these two new lines there will be busy signals for most
      of the day and evening. We figured that we really would like to add 3 
      more lines, bringing the hunt group to 11.
      
  (3) There is more than one way to go to a faster processor, but
      due to the high cost of a 486-based solution, Marcus's interest
      in getting his 3/260 upgraded to a Sun-4, and the
      staff's bias towards Sun equipment, we mainly considered the option
      of using a SPARC processor board to upgrade tone of our Sun-3
      boxes to a Sun-4..
      
      This was placed ahead of Usenet and internet, because
      We need a cpu upgrade before the other items make sense.
      An upgrade to the internet link without a cpu upgrade would drive
      load averages even higher. Usenet would also require an additional
      processor, and the switch to a Sun-4 could free up the existing
      Sun-3 to be a news machine.
      
  (4) Grex was founded to do computer conferencing. This is not limited to
      Picospan. We agreed that Usenet is a legitimate from of conferencing
      which we wish to restore. There is an important need for Usenet on Grex.
      
      Similarly it is important for us to upgrade our internet connection
      to make it easier for people to use the system. Technically we 
      investigated ISDN strategies, primarily. The biggest issue is how
      low can we negotiate the packet routing charges.
      
      A great deal of support was shown for the idea of upgrading the link, 
      preferably to 128K, but increasing the number of ptys by a modest
      amount, say 16. This would improve the chances that routing delays
      would improve, and not degrade back to their present levels.
      Of course it does mean that as more people are attracted to Grex,
      they will encounter "all ports in use" at busy times.
      
      No agreement could be made as to whether Usenet or a Link upgrade
      was more important for Grex. If we can do only one, this will have to
      be decided.
      
  (6) Faster modems and a terminal server. We all agreed that these would be
      good things. It would be especially valuable if we could go to
      error-correcting (MNP) modems, as it would insulate many users from 
      line noise. This was prioritized lower simply because the need appeared
      greater to us for the items listed above.
      
  (7) More disk space is not really needed yet, except that a disk
      will have to be included in the price of the Sparc upgrade.
      
(3) We figured out how much each item cost, approximately. We did this as well
    as we could, given that we still need to do a great deal more
    investigation on some items, such as the internet link upgrade.
    
    The cost for each item was figured separately as capital cost and monthly
    cost.
    
    (1) Memory upgrade:     $400 capital
    (2) 3 Dialup lines:     $450 capital + $48/month
          include modems, cables, line installation
    (3) Processor upgrade: $1250 capital + $50/month
          include sparc card $500, disk $500, SCSI $150, misc $100
          $50/month is estimated electricity charge to run an extra VME
          box in the dungeon. It will apply to usenet once the cutover
          is accomplished.
    
    At this point we had gone over the $2000 available in our capital budget.
    Although we used $98 of the $175 in the monthly budget, we wished to
    reserve some for discretionary spending.
    
    (4) Usenet - depends greatly on the strategy used. If we go with a 
    cast-off sun-3 and disk from the processor upgrade project, it will have no
    capital costs, but we will still need to obtain a news feed.
    The satellite system is $30/month and won't impact our link bandwidth.
    The start up cost is $695 or $895 depending on antenna size.
    Plus they want the first year's monthly fees in advance ($360).
    
    (4) Internet - depends on what we can negotiate. The commercial rate for
    routing charges is $500/month, which is out of our league. If we can
    negotiate a much smaller rate somewhere, then the other costs are $1900 
    capital for the ISDN interface equipment at both ends and ISDN phone line 
    installation, and $24/month increment over our current net link
    Ameritech charges (from $36 to $60).
    
    (6) Terminal server $600. 8 modem replacements $800-$1000.
    The total is about $1500, and there is no monthly component.
    
    (7) Disk is cheap, and the longer we wait, the cheaper it gets.
    
(4) So, based on the above, the board will have on the agenda for its next
    meeting (3/22 7PM) the following items:
    
    (1) Approve $400 to purchase a 32MB memory card so that we can return
        Marcus's and continue running on 64MB.
        
    (2) Approve the expansion of the hunt group form 8 to 11 by adding 3
        more lines. Approve the purchase of 3 modems for these lines.
        We will ask for better modems than the 2400 baud non-MNP modems
        we are currently using. Several staff members believe that we
        can upgrade service to 9600 baud on some lines at least, without
        a terminal server. Even if we configure them to connect only at 2400,
        they would do MNP error correction. the allocation requested would be
        3 x $42 = $126 for Ameritech installation charges, and 3x $100 for
        modems for a total of $426, plus a commitment to the $48/month 
        additional monthly expense. 
        
    (3) Approve the Sparc upgrade project, which would require allocating
        $500 for a Sparc card, $500 for a Disk, $150 for a SCSI controller,
        and $100 for miscellaneous items related to this upgrade. We would not
        need to spend these funds right away, but we would need to have the
        project authorized to this funding level in order to proceed.
        
It should be noted that there is a limitation on staff time. It was
discussed that it might be appropriate to have a fund-raiser for the 
purpose of either or both items labeled (4). While we agreed that this 
was an appropriate way to go about funding these projects, there would 
be insufficient staff time available to see them to completion for 
several months.  Therefore we recommended that a fund raiser be planned 
for several months from now, and that a specific purpose and dollar 
level be selected.

Respectfully submitted,

-srw (Secretary)

response 19 of 73:

Mar 8 04:18 UTC 1995

   There you go Rob.

response 21 of 73:

Mar 8 04:58 UTC 1995

Sounds like a fruitful - and important - meeting. I'm sorry I could not
attend.

response 23 of 73:

Mar 8 16:46 UTC 1995

No, I asume when you say "slower modems" you mean "older modems that don't
support MNP", that won't be a problem. During the initial connection handshake
our modem would queury the other modem for it's capabilities. If the other
modem didn't support MNP, then a non-MNP connection will be established.