Advertising and public services

Mar 5 22:12 UTC 1998

The AATA buses are being supported by taxes and some really ugly billboard
type advertising (I don't know how people can see out fo the windows), rather
than being required to run smaller buses and be self-supporting (a full-sized
bus seems to carry 1-6 people most of the time).  The post office change of
address forms have switched to a large glossy colored brochure full of local
advertising, which you have to recycle when you move.  The post office is also
full of garish color posters advertising stamps, and they are now selling
stationaery, keychains, and ties.  The public library is selling t-shirts.
I would much rather pay higher taxes and/or a higher user fee and avoid the
waste and ugliness of advertising.  Where else is the advertising blight going
to spread?  Why can't public services be supported by taxes or users?  PBS
seems to be just as commercial as other TV.  What is the difference between
a commercial and a message from the sponsor?

response 2 of 22:

Mar 6 01:39 UTC 1998

In regard to bus advertising, yes, I've found some (most?) to be garish.
As a rider, you can see out (the fabric covering the windows has a lot of
tiny holes in it, like a window screen).  The problem with more taxes is
that most people feel they are already over-taxed (have you taken a look
at your social-security + medicare contribution in relation to "income"
taxes lately, for example?).  Some people feel that user fees are the way
to go.  For example, raise bus fares, park entrance fees, overdue book
fines, the cost of postage stamps, etc.  I think, however, that the
increased use of advertising (as in we sold the side of our bus to get
more money) is an indication that the people who run the services you
mention are afraid of a major loss of income if they increase fees.  I
don't know if that is particularly true, but is possible.
  In regard to running smaller busses, I have a feeling the AATA would
disagree.  I rather think they set the size of the bus by the peak load
rather than the average or modal load.  As one who has had to stand
shoulder to shoulder holding on to the railing in a packed bus, I'd not
like to see smaller busses, especially if it means standing on the side
of the road for another half an hour with the same chance of (not) getting
a seat.

response 4 of 22:

Mar 6 05:25 UTC 1998

Yes, we buy a certain percentage of our buses to service routes during peak
hours, just as roads are built to handle peak hour traffic. (If you've ever
worried about the "empty bus" problem, go stand at Washtenaw and Huron Parkway
between 11 pm and 7 am.  Talk about excess capacity! *grin*)

If you wanted users to support the roads, your gasoline taxes would be in
the $5/gal range.  And a bus ride would cost about $4.30 per ride, if it
were totally user supported.  That includes, of course, the bus
transportation for the disability community, which we are required to
provide "equivalent service" for.  I'm assuming that no one wants to
separate out the cost of line buses from the vans.  If we were to do that,
the cost per ride for big buses would go down dramatically, but we would
have to charge seniors and handicappers about $20 per ride for the
specially equipped buses.  That would be about $200 per week just to get to
and from work.  Shopping, medical, and social rides would add to the total.  

It is true that many public services are used by fewer citizens than the
total number who pay for them.  In Ann Arbor, we provide a lot of services
to the entire city: police, fire, parks, libraries, buses, schools, roads,
and so on.  It is merely a questions of what the citizens want to pay for
as a community to make the whole community a nicer place to live for
everyone.

The illogical extension of pay-per-service is rented security people,
joining in a fire protection company which would only respond if you had
paid your bill, private schools, no public lands, and toll-roads for all
travel.  In that uncooperative setting, only those with adequate incomes
could afford police, fire, schools, parks, and travel.  The rest would be
left to defend themselves and their property as best they could.  

In an attempt to keep everyone's taxes low, the AATA tries to maximize
non-government income.  The Board has always limited the number of fleet
vehicles that could be used for advertising (what comes to mind as a number
is 12, but I'd have to check) out of a total of around 80-90 buses.  

With federal and state leaders trying to privitize as many functions as
possible, we may soon see profit-making enterprizes running many activities
that we once considered "government" functions.  Most municiple bus systems
used to be privately owned, but with the immense road building programs in
the 50s and 60s, went out of business as the average vehicles per house
hold went higher and higher.  Transit service became one of those public
functions that were seen as a "public good" for the whole community, not
just for those who had no private vehicle of their own.  

response 6 of 22:

Mar 6 20:19 UTC 1998

re#4.  I think it would be an extremely good idea if gasoline taxes were to
pay for the roads, rather than taxing everyone equally. It would encourage
people to use the buses, reduce pollution, and keep bus fares down.  As things
are, I don't drive but have to pay for roads that I cannot bike on because
they are full of cars, one of which tried to run me off the road and told me
to stay on the sidewalk.  I have never seen full buses even at peak hours
except on the Ann-Arbor to Ypsi routes, the rest have under 10 people.  It
would be far less noisy and polluting to run something smaller on most routes
and at most times.  It would save gasoline costs, too. I find the bus ads very
ugly and would certainly avoid buying from any of the advertisers (but that
is how I feel about most advertising).  Advertising, in my opinion, taxes
people stupid enough to pay for products which cost more because of the
advertising (such as Coke, Levis, etc.).  Higher gas taxes would also
discourage people from buying large vans (just in case they want to carry a
Christmas tree, like in large microwave ovens for one turkey), which they
could rent once a year instead.
        I don't care about the TV commercials, the programs are generall no
better than the commercials (which are sometimes interesting, once).
        I would be happy to pay higher postage to avoid having forests chopped
down to create the junk mail which is now supporting low postage rates. 
(Anyway, why send pieces of paper around when e-mail will do?).  

response 8 of 22:

Mar 6 23:12 UTC 1998

The bus that had a Porshe (?) on the side was really neat.  There have
been others that weren't objectionable, too (just to balance out comments
on those that look ugly, mainly any ad with pastel colors in my opinion).
I don't mind ads on buses, either, by the way.  
  And if gas taxes totally financed roads, even those who didn't drive
cars would suffer.  I imagine road repair would be even worse, and
although less people would drive or the same number would drive less
miles per year which would help the environment, the economy as a whole
would suffer.  One might even imagine such a situation where busses, fire
engines and ambulances might not be able to run due to lack of funds
for fuel at certain times of the month or year (depending on budget).
Or imagine a bus service that doesn't run until enough people line up
with tickets so that the fuel cost will be covered.  Definitely not
situations I'd like to see.  If advertising helps keep those situations
from happening, great.  It's an extremely small price to pay for the
kind of services we get.
  As a bicyclist, how would you feel about paying for your real share
of the road (including repair, signage, and snow removal, etc.)?
Might make licensing your bike a costly and frustrating experience.
Of course, you already do pay to certain extent via property taxes and
sales taxes.  But I doubt if that covers the full cost of your share.
  As state and federal funds for community services shrink or dry up
completely, you will see a combination of increased (local) taxes, user
fees, and advertising or other add-on services to help defray costs.
As much as I hate having to pay higher costs for anything, it's fine
with me if someone else is willing to lower my bus fare by paying to get
their message on the side of a bus.  And, yes, advertising does provide
a service: that of making the availability of goods and services known
to you, and helping competition bring you more and varied goods and
services at competitive prices.
  That said, there are ordinances in many places regarding where a
billboard can be placed, how big it can be, how close to the road, etc.
So there is concern out there for "eye pollution" or whatever you want
to call it.  You can thank such laws in Ann Arbor for not having to look
at a bewildering forest of signs sticking out into the street in the
business districts, for example, but whether that law was enacted more
due to aesthetic concerns or pedestrian safety or some other concern,
I can't say for sure.

response 10 of 22:

Mar 7 00:39 UTC 1998

Re #7, if gas taxes encouraged more people to use public transportation, the
cost would be split among 30 people instead of 5 and would definitely go down.
Gas costs are a small part of the cost, most of it is labor (or the buses
would be smaller to minimize gas costs.  If drivers were cheap, it would be
cheaper to send small vehicles out and add more during rush hours).
        Re bikes and road taxes.  Personally, I would not mind if the roads
were eliminated, for all the use I get out of them.  I am paying property
taxes in three locations to suport roads that I cannot safely use.  What
percentage of the local roads are paid for by property taxes and what
percentage by usage taxes?  I can't imagine why bikers should be taxed for
snow removal, I don't ever ride on snowy enough days to need removal.
        Most ads don't tell potential customers about anything, they just keep
repeating the name of the product and try to associate it with glamour.  I
don't mind informative ads, but the large color pictures are not info.  I also
advertise, in the form of resumes.
        Gasoline costs $4-5/gallon in Europe and the public transportation is
far better.  I don't think the roads are in any worse repair for the fact that
the money comes directly from the drivers, and what they are charged is
proportional to the amount of fuel they burn, and thus to the amount of wear
they put on the roads.  Trucks use a lot more fuel and would pay a larger
percentage of the use tax.  Charging trucks more would encourage more use of
railroadss, which are more fuel efficient, and are very useful if there are
enough of them to run everyone and frequently.  They are much more
time-efficient since you can read a book while travelling, or chat (or even
type on your laptop or eat lunch).

response 14 of 22:

Mar 7 16:28 UTC 1998

I find that the advertising in the Observer is interesting, in that it lets
you know what is going on locally, as is some of the radio advertising, but
TV and national magazine stuff is mainly aimed at people who buy for emotional
reasons (color, noise....).  ANd a lot of the billboard stuff for cars,
caffeine, alcohol and nicotine should, in my opinion, be painted over.  It
benefits nobody except stockholders.  Who would support a ban on billboard
advertising of drugs?  (Legal or otherwise).  Do kids nowadays really believe
what they see and hear from the nicotine companies?

response 16 of 22:

Mar 8 17:20 UTC 1998

I agree with Walter completely.  Why should people be forced to listen to the
radio at work.  (See Music item 116).
        Yesterday the National Family Opinion survey company that keeps sending
me silly little surveys on what products I buy sent one ordered by the Post
Office.
Do I agree that the P. O. 'does things for the community, offers reliable
products (?) and services, provides good value, is only in business to sell
postage and mailing supplies and deliver amil, ....documents American
history/popular culture, embraces traditional American values, serves an
important education function.....'  I never would have dreamed they were
trying to do the last three - perhaps this is some sort of image they are
trying to cultivate in order to sell more collectible stamps?  Then they ask
how important I think it is for them to sell stamp-related stationery,
tee-shirts, mugs, etc. [what, no mouse pads?] and to increase the number of
US stamp collectors.  And which of 19 stamp categories do I buy - sports,
music, movies, cartoons, Christmas, American, Lova, AIDs, patriotism,
transportation.  (Last stamps I bought were 'all other holidays' - Chinese
new year because I did not like the bomber planes.)   Dinosaurs are a
category.  Did I use them to mail letters, give as gifts, add to my
collection, start a collection, or just save a few odd stamps.  (Now we are
getting to buseiness - they want people to buy and not use this 'art' - I
tried to start an item on this in Arts, stamps being political 'art').  Do
I match stamps to my preferences, needs, the occasion or recipient?   m What
else do I collect (stoves and refrigerators were not on the list) -
autographs, trading cards, CDs, books, collector dolls, Elvis items, Star
Trek, Coca-Cola -- would they dare come out with a Coca-Cola stamp???).  They
are selling what is supposed to be educational stamps and we should vote for
stamp subjects for a particular decade (I would not have believed this one)
'Celebrate the Century' stamps.  'CTC merchandise are [sic] great gifts, CTC
stamps should be saved, not used, This program is helping to keep stamp prices
down.....     I had no idea the post office was turning into this much of a
retail business.  Has e-mail hurt them?  How many letters a month do I mail
(3?).   'This program is just a gimmick to get people to collect stamps.'

Will the library be next?  I notice they are already selling T-shirts.
        The gas and electric companies are now selling merchandise.  I had to
call to stop the gas co from sending out Christmas catalogs, and have to throw
out advertising that comes with the bills.  Are all public services and
utilities going to become retail businesses to support their services?  My
bank has been giving prizes for opening 'free' (no interest) accounts and the
place is always lined with tupperware or flashlights.  Strange, but true.

response 18 of 22:

Mar 8 20:52 UTC 1998

And even Grex is thinking of selling stuff, even though it is not a Grex
purpose to be a merchandiser. 

response 20 of 22:

Mar 8 22:06 UTC 1998

I inherited a disorganized collection of commemorative stamps my father
had collected. I used them to mail letters.

I would be interested in knowing the finances of the PO collectibles 
activities. How much *net* income does it raise for the PO? I realize
that printing stamps (like money) is relatively cheap since the stuff
can be sold for a lot more than it costs to make, but this also depends
on the market. Does selling collectibles significantly subsidize the PO
services, and by how much?

response 22 of 22:

Mar 9 04:18 UTC 1998

My upstairs neighbor has several framed unused sheets of stamps on the kitchen
wall, I think it is something from the movies. She collects fifties stuff.
But why would twenty of them, little, be more interesting than one big one?
I have noticed that of recent years the sheets of stamps alsohave a large
related picture on some unusable gummed paper around the top and outside. 
An odd decorating style.  Does the U of M sell t-shirts direct yet?